HMRC asking me to repay from a rebate

Jeremy535897

An agent does not and should not require access to your government gateway. What happens is that you authorise them to act for you. Once HMRC receive the authorisation, they grant the agent access to your details via their (not your) gateway. It can be done in one of two ways:

• the agent posts a 64-8 (New), which has been signed by you, to HMRC; or
• the agent completes the same form online, HMRC send you an authorisation code, and you supply that code to the agent

You (or they) cannot simply use your government gateway account to "put themselves in as" agent. You must have authorised them to act by one of the methods above, unless they simply signed a paper 64-8 (New) themselves. If they did, and never asked you to approve the amended returns when submitted, you might have an argument that you are a victim of fraud, and that they were never your agents. If they simply used your government gateway to file amended returns, I suspect HMRC would point out that you should not have granted them access. As I said earlier, though, if they had done this, they would not show up as the agent at all.

Whether any of that would stop HMRC pursuing you (at least in respect to the £2,000 paid to FTR), I do not know. However, if this is the situation, making HMRC aware should have some beneficial impact on any penalty levied.

You should also revoke any authority that obliges HMRC to pay refunds to them that is still in place. Contact HMRC if you are in doubt, but if you never signed a deed of assignment, I suspect that when the amended returns were filed, FTR put their bank details in the section that deals with where refunds are sent.

The normal process regarding claims is as follows:

• use their complaints procedure to state your concerns and why you want a refund
• if this is unsatisfactory, issue a LBA (see https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/legal-system/small-claims/making-a-small-claim/ )
• after that, proceed to small claims (there is a cost). See the link above.

sheramber

If they accessed through the government gateway account would they not be submitting the information  as 'Dixon 2094'.
HMRC have said the information is in his name. 
They would only need to request repayment to them.

Jeremy535897

I don't know. OP said originally:

A month ago from now (around a year later from the original claim submission), I received a letter in the post from HMRC saying they were investigating a tax rebate claim submitted by me for EIS (Enterprise Investment Scheme) relief. Obviously, I had no idea what this is or what they were referring to until I read on and saw FTR's name.

That indicates they are agents, otherwise why would their name appear in HMRC's letter?

[Deleted User]

Hi,

just curious, what does your 'good friend' say about all this and had he used them previously without any problems?

dixon2094

Jeremy535897 said:

An agent does not and should not require access to your government gateway. What happens is that you authorise them to act for you. Once HMRC receive the authorisation, they grant the agent access to your details via their (not your) gateway. It can be done in one of two ways:

• the agent posts a 64-8 (New), which has been signed by you, to HMRC; or
• the agent completes the same form online, HMRC send you an authorisation code, and you supply that code to the agent

You (or they) cannot simply use your government gateway account to "put themselves in as" agent. You must have authorised them to act by one of the methods above, unless they simply signed a paper 64-8 (New) themselves. If they did, and never asked you to approve the amended returns when submitted, you might have an argument that you are a victim of fraud, and that they were never your agents. If they simply used your government gateway to file amended returns, I suspect HMRC would point out that you should not have granted them access. As I said earlier, though, if they had done this, they would not show up as the agent at all.

Whether any of that would stop HMRC pursuing you (at least in respect to the £2,000 paid to FTR), I do not know. However, if this is the situation, making HMRC aware should have some beneficial impact on any penalty levied.

You should also revoke any authority that obliges HMRC to pay refunds to them that is still in place. Contact HMRC if you are in doubt, but if you never signed a deed of assignment, I suspect that when the amended returns were filed, FTR put their bank details in the section that deals with where refunds are sent.

The normal process regarding claims is as follows:

• use their complaints procedure to state your concerns and why you want a refund
• if this is unsatisfactory, issue a LBA (see https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/legal-system/small-claims/making-a-small-claim/ )
• after that, proceed to small claims (there is a cost). See the link above.

Yes - they did ask for an authorisation code which was posted to my address. I gave that to FTR.

Yes, FTR received the full amount and they paid me directly my third.

I've sent FTR a SAR via email and post, and also a 'Letter Before Action' requesting the monies they received paid to me. Hopefully, this goes somewhere!

PS: loads of people around my area are starting to get these letters. Presumably, because the whole scheme was based on referrals. 

dixon2094

[Deleted User] said:

Hi,

just curious, what does your 'good friend' say about all this and had he used them previously without any problems?

He's also been sent the letter and has to pay £8000+... he earns more than me, hence the larger sum.

Jeremy535897

What you are saying is that FTR were your agent, properly appointed by you. It appears that FTR then submitted amended returns on your behalf, without your approval to those returns, making tax refund claims in respect of EIS investments you never made, and ensuring any refunds were paid to them. They then passed 30% of this refund to you. Is that correct? What does your personal tax account show? If this is so, and the initial form from FTR you completed made no mention of EIS investments, and you never told FTR you had made any EIS investments, it would appear that they have obtained a refund from HMRC under false pretences. The fact that the director of the company resigned on 8 June 2021 sounds very convenient. I would suspect that the company has few, if any, assets, and the new director probably knows nothing about it.

This begs the question though as to why they asked for your government gateway user name and password in the first place. Or were you thinking that the authorisation code was doing this?

Even if you remove an agent online, HMRC may continue to accept filings from them and communicate with them. You need to write to HMRC (recorded delivery), asking them to remove the agent, and confirm in writing that they have done so.

Sorcerer2018

So do you own any EIS investments? Because they are normally targets to high net worth individuals or sophisticated investments. If not then it sounds like they made a false claim for EIS relief, but HMRC will then check to make sure you actually have those investments, and when they discovered you didn't they wanted the money back. You also might want to find better friends, or at least don't listen to them for tax advice. 

dixon2094

Jeremy535897 said:

What you are saying is that FTR were your agent, properly appointed by you. It appears that FTR then submitted amended returns on your behalf, without your approval to those returns, making tax refund claims in respect of EIS investments you never made, and ensuring any refunds were paid to them. They then passed 30% of this refund to you. Is that correct? What does your personal tax account show? If this is so, and the initial form from FTR you completed made no mention of EIS investments, and you never told FTR you had made any EIS investments, it would appear that they have obtained a refund from HMRC under false pretences. The fact that the director of the company resigned on 8 June 2021 sounds very convenient. I would suspect that the company has few, if any, assets, and the new director probably knows nothing about it.

This begs the question though as to why they asked for your government gateway user name and password in the first place. Or were you thinking that the authorisation code was doing this?

Even if you remove an agent online, HMRC may continue to accept filings from them and communicate with them. You need to write to HMRC (recorded delivery), asking them to remove the agent, and confirm in writing that they have done so.

Yes that's right. There's nothing under my personal tax account. It's under Self Assessment taxes. Throughout the process, they did ask if I had been self-employed before, which wasn't the case. I've always been PAYE.

Yes - I thought the Auth code was so they could place the rebate on my behalf and access my GG account for me.

FYI - i've logged in online and can see this from taking a look at my previous tax rebate form... it clearly states the money was paid to FTR and that the mentioned the EIS in the rebate - something I had no idea about, like I said...

https://i.postimg.cc/JnKs51pw/Screenshot-2021-06-10-at-10-02-27-am.png

https://i.postimg.cc/kXNgQMGT/Screenshot-2021-06-10-at-10-02-46-am.png

dixon2094

Sorcerer2018 said:

So do you own any EIS investments? Because they are normally targets to high net worth individuals or sophisticated investments. If not then it sounds like they made a false claim for EIS relief, but HMRC will then check to make sure you actually have those investments, and when they discovered you didn't they wanted the money back. You also might want to find better friends, or at least don't listen to them for tax advice. 

Never even heard of EIS investments. My friend was under the illusion, just like me, he was able to get a tax rebate based on his previous 3 years' tax payments. He got his money, and so he referred me.