Help needed for court Defence against ParkingEye for unfair PCN

KeithP

So you read my post of 6 June at 11:20PM on your very own thread and responded to it by saying - that doesn't answer my question.

One line in that post was...

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look at the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Note those words - file a Defence by email

I guess you didn't read that far down my post.

Rich_the_owl

I've been using the second post on the NEWBIES thread for the past few weeks to understand and plan what I need to do. But you need to understand there is a lot of information in there (which is great), but its easy to miss some stuff and/or get mixed up. You also need to understand that for both of you two this is bread and butter stuff, but its all totally new to me, so it can be challenging sometimes to get my head around it all and easy to get mixed up.

Please don't think I am being ungrateful for all your help and advice, but I think sometimes taking the above into consideration would be worthwhile for you. I appreciate your patience and understanding.

OK, so I can now see the statement "Send your defence to the CCBCAQ email address given by KeithP in all the other recent claim/defence threads we need you to read first." So looking at some recent threads this does appear to be to ccbcaq@justice.gov.uk. (NOTE - would it better to put the actual email address in that statement in post 2 on the NEWBIES thread?) . I will send my Defence to that email address then

Question:

• Should I still submit the Defence on the moneyclaim.gov.uk portal and just put in the Defence online box something like "Defence has been emailed separately to ccbcaq@justice.gov.uk. Please see that for details? Or should I just not touch the moneyclaim portal? I am just worried that because nothing is submitted on the money claim website what would happen is in a few days it would say I am out of time. Please can you advise on this?

Thanks again in advance

Rich_the_owl

You can probably ignore the question in my last post. I saw on point 5 on this thread that in a few days it should be marked as "defence received" - https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6027604/looking-for-suggestions-on-how-to-file-a-defence#latest

Rich_the_owl

Thanks again KeithP and Coupon-mad for your help and advice. I have emailed my Defence to ccbcaq@justice.gov.uk. I will keep this thread updated with regards to what unfolds from that

Rich_the_owl

UPDATE

ccbcaq have acknowledged my Defence and MCOL is updated to state that my Defence has been received on 09/06/2021

So I got my SAR request back from ParkingEye. The personal information regarding letters, emails, photos etc. all seem to be there but on this point (which is mentioned in the NEWBIES thread) they are refusing to comply:

• if the car park was Pay and Display, ALWAYS ask for a PDT machine record from that day, of payments made (VRNs can be partially redacted but insist on getting this; follow it up if they refuse).

Upon receiving the SAR request I responded asking them to specifically provide this information from the day of the Event and this was their response:

Our Privacy team only deal with Subject Access Requests for access to the data we hold about you and where it pertains to yourself as the data subject, a Subject Access Request entitles you to the following information: 

•         A copy of the information which we hold about you;

•         Information about what personal data is being processed; and

•         Details of the source of that data.

For the avoidance of doubt, this does not include technical information relating to the calibration of the Parkingeye system and there is no requirement for details of our internal processes or policies to be published or provided to individuals. Providing the requested information would pertain to other motorists personal data and VRM records, and at this stage we are not able to provide this due to Data Protection regulations. We are only able to supply information to the Police or under a Court Order should legal proceedings commence.

We sincerely apologise for any inconvenience caused.

So the NEWBIES thread says "insist on this." I can keep asking but I know they will just send me this same email again which is basically a "no"

So my question is what legal ground do I have to stand on here for them to insist providing me the PDT record? What can I use to force them to provide me this information? Or is not really relevant at this point?
Help and advice welcome please

D_P_Dance

Insist and tell them that you will raise this with the judge as a preliminary issue.  The best form of defence is attack. 

Rich_the_owl

OK thanks D_P_Dance, I will do this but I think they will just come back with the same email, basically saying "no."
Just wondering if there is any legal spiel I can throw in to my response?

Coupon-mad

Just say you know they will have to exhibit the machine logs with their witness statement and so, because none of this was shown to you before they decided to file a claim, you are disadvantaged.  Under the pre-action protocol, the least they should have done was provided an image of the sign/ contract and a redacted log of payments made. Say you consider this a failure to adhere to the pre-action protocol and their continued refusal is unreasonable.

Tell them you are not asking for calibration, merely the machine logs covering the time your car was on site, and you know they have provided such a list before and there is no data issue because they can redact VRMs that relate to other cars, leaving visible only those unmatched payments that may have a partial VRM or error code instead of VRM, and certainly any close match VRM that would be identifiable as a keying error for your car.

Having said this, I’ve now re-read your first post and you didn’t stay or try to pay, so I wouldn’t bother with the above route as it is irrelevant to your case, surely?

Rich_the_owl

Hi Coupon-mad,
Thanks for the advice. Yes, you are right I didn't stay or attempt to pay but I thought if for some reason they don't have PDT machine record for that particular day then it would work against them as they cannot prove or dis-prove what payments are taken on that day. To be honest even if it takes up a small extra bit of their time by having to reply to me its probably still worth it in my eyes

Le_Kirk

They won't have a PDT record for that day with your VRM on it or a near miss if you did not attempt to pay.  They might have (in fact almost certainly) will have your VRM on the ANPR and if that does not match up with an attempt to pay using your VRM I don't see where you go with this.  Didn't like the terms and conditions and drove away????