Dropped kerb

Aretnap

AdrianC said:

lemondrops69 said:

custardy said:

You have no right of access to your drive. Being blocked from leaving is a different matter.
So be careful telling people they cant park there or you may find a car parked there permanently.

Are you sure? Can you point to anything that states 'You have no right of access to your drive'. 

Highway code rule 243
DO NOT stop or park

• near a school entrance
• anywhere you would prevent access for Emergency Services
• at or near a bus or tram stop or taxi rank
• on the approach to a level crossing/tramway crossing
• opposite or within 10 metres (32 feet) of a junction, except in an authorised parking space
• near the brow of a hill or hump bridge
• opposite a traffic island or (if this would cause an obstruction) another parked vehicle
• where you would force other traffic to enter a tram lane
• where the kerb has been lowered to help wheelchair users and powered mobility vehicles
• in front of an entrance to a property
• on a bend
• where you would obstruct cyclists’ use of cycle facilities except when forced to do so by stationary traffic.

That's guidance, not a rule.

Blocking vehicles from ENTERING a driveway is not obstruction of the highway.
Blocking them from LEAVING the driveway is obstructing them from the highway.
It's that obstruction which is illegal.

As per my earlier post, if this was ever true it has now been largely superseded by civil parking regulations which make it unambiguously illegal to park across any dropped kerb in most large towns and cities (with a few exceptions, none of which have anything to do with whether the driveway is occupied).

I must say I'm unconvinced that it was ever true. It has all the hallmarks of an urban myth - it sounds clever and vaguely plausible until you actually think about how silly it would be, and it's repeated endlessly on internet forums without anyone ever citing any case law or an authoritative source to confirm that it's true. However as I can't find anything definitive to confirm that it's NOT true either, I'm labelling myself as "sceptical" rather than "calling BS".

Grumpy_chap

Here is a link that then links to legislation:
https://www.richmond.gov.uk/services/parking/dropped_kerb_enforcement
This seems to differentiate between a dropped kerb for pedestrian / wheelchair / buggy crossing and dropped kerb vehicle crossover to a private driveway. 

Practice seems to vary again in so far as at any public meeting, the Council and Police always state (verbally) that they will enforce if there is obstruction (vehicle blocked in) but not if there is no obstruction (vehicle prevented from entering). 

In addition, where vehicles bump the kerb onto a driveway and then get blocked in, the Council and Police always state they will take no action as it is not permitted to cross the footway in that manner so they assume the vehicles were helicoptered in and will be helicoptered out.

lemondrops69

Aretnap said:

AdrianC said:

lemondrops69 said:

custardy said:

You have no right of access to your drive. Being blocked from leaving is a different matter.
So be careful telling people they cant park there or you may find a car parked there permanently.

Are you sure? Can you point to anything that states 'You have no right of access to your drive'. 

Highway code rule 243
DO NOT stop or park

• near a school entrance
• anywhere you would prevent access for Emergency Services
• at or near a bus or tram stop or taxi rank
• on the approach to a level crossing/tramway crossing
• opposite or within 10 metres (32 feet) of a junction, except in an authorised parking space
• near the brow of a hill or hump bridge
• opposite a traffic island or (if this would cause an obstruction) another parked vehicle
• where you would force other traffic to enter a tram lane
• where the kerb has been lowered to help wheelchair users and powered mobility vehicles
• in front of an entrance to a property
• on a bend
• where you would obstruct cyclists’ use of cycle facilities except when forced to do so by stationary traffic.

That's guidance, not a rule.

Blocking vehicles from ENTERING a driveway is not obstruction of the highway.
Blocking them from LEAVING the driveway is obstructing them from the highway.
It's that obstruction which is illegal.

As per my earlier post, if this was ever true it has now been largely superseded by civil parking regulations which make it unambiguously illegal to park across any dropped kerb in most large towns and cities (with a few exceptions, none of which have anything to do with whether the driveway is occupied).

I must say I'm unconvinced that it was ever true. It has all the hallmarks of an urban myth - it sounds clever and vaguely plausible until you actually think about how silly it would be, and it's repeated endlessly on internet forums without anyone ever citing any case law or an authoritative source to confirm that it's true. However as I can't find anything definitive to confirm that it's NOT true either, I'm labelling myself as "sceptical" rather than "calling BS".

Thanks, good information. It seems a lot of 'lay people' have been sucked in by this urban myth, nice for the clarification 

JamoLew

I’m not convinced the claim of “most cities/large towns” is accurate.

Is there anything published that confirms this where most = >50% (being generous)

Also, a good proportion of the population dont live in a city or large town.

Blocking someone from accessing their drive has little or no consequence whereas blocking someone from leaving could have a much greater impact - hence why enforcement between the two may differ when there is no clear legality of it.

Aretnap

JamoLew said:

I’m not convinced the claim of “most cities/large towns” is accurate.

Is there anything published that confirms this where most = >50% (being generous)

Also, a good proportion of the population dont live in a city or large town.

Actually it seems that "most large towns and cities" was me being conservative and out of date. It was true in the early days of civil parking enforcement, but now the large majority of the country is under civil parking enforcement. Specifically the areas in green.

Source: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/list-of-local-authorities-with-civil-parking-enforcement-powers

Technically the local authority has to designate itself as a Special Enforcement area as well an introducing civil parking enforcement in order for the dropped kerb provisions to apply. Figures on special enforcement areas don't seem to be as easy to come by, but my understanding has always been that the large majority of councils with CPE have also introduced special enforcement areas - very few councils think that blocking dropped kerbs is great and should be encouraged.

Manxman_in_exile

custardy said:

and even if we agree its enforceable. Who is enforcing someone parking in front of a drive in a residential street?
I know of one guy getting their car impounded after parking over a 'dropped kerb' (though debatable on the image) to a utility sub station in the town centre here.


However good luck getting enforcement at your home.

The council enforce it of course - if they've approved the installation.  Plus they get to keep the revenue.

All the OP needs to do is complain to the council.

JamoLew

Aretnap said:

JamoLew said:

I’m not convinced the claim of “most cities/large towns” is accurate.

Is there anything published that confirms this where most = >50% (being generous)

Also, a good proportion of the population dont live in a city or large town.

Actually it seems that "most large towns and cities" was me being conservative and out of date. It was true in the early days of civil parking enforcement, but now the large majority of the country is under civil parking enforcement. Specifically the areas in green.

Source: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/list-of-local-authorities-with-civil-parking-enforcement-powers

Technically the local authority has to designate itself as a Special Enforcement area as well an introducing civil parking enforcement in order for the dropped kerb provisions to apply. Figures on special enforcement areas don't seem to be as easy to come by, but my understanding has always been that the large majority of councils with CPE have also introduced special enforcement areas - very few councils think that blocking dropped kerbs is great and should be encouraged.

Would def be Interesting to see how many do actually enforce dropped kerb parking - but as you say, that data isn’t easily found

sevenhills

Kaoslisa said:

After consulting with the council their advice was to widen the driveway to allow us to enter the drive on a angle and hence be able to get two cars on the drive. I took their advice paid a council approved contractor to have this done and it’s all been signed off by the council around two months ago.
Tonight one of the neighbours parked over the widened part of the drive and when I asked them to move it so we would be able to get both cars out in the morning

You state that you have had your drive widened, have you also had the dropped curb widened?

Jonathan_Powell

It seems this thread has already been taking over by people arguing about points that don't help the OP. They can't park across your dropped kerb, even by a little bit. If they do, just keep reporting them to the council.

You have bad and inconsiderate neighbours, similar to me. They're just bullying you. Doesn't matter if they've parked their before, things have Changed. 

CityBoyTheSecond

What is more worrying is if someone actually parks on your driveway while you are out. Apparently this is still not illegal, the police will do nothing, and if you attempt to interfere with the car yourself, you commit an offence. The only recourse in this situation is to sue for trespass, which by the time it comes to court will probably be after the owner has moved it anyway.