Whose fault ? Outcome from insurance

littleboo

Were both vehicles moving at the time of the collision?

BOWFER

Sandtree said:

BOWFER said:

Sandtree said:

Its a carpark, markings are not legally enforceable. 

Are you sure about that?
If it's a carpark with 'unhindered access' (IE no gates/barriers and is open to be driven on at any time of day) it's classed as a public road and normal road laws apply.
This is why anyone damaging your car in such a car park can be charged with leaving the scene of an accident.

Can you point to a single case of someone being prosecuted or getting a FPN for driving in the wrong direction in a car park with no aggravating factors? Given this "offence" happens at least hundreds of times a day there must be tens of thousands out there to select from.

Can't point to the relevant legislation but there are rules and regulations etc about the placing of roadsigns that must be obeyed... there was the news story a while back when a village put their own speed limit sign up and then using speed cameras tried to get drivers prosecuted for breaking the speed limit but they were the ones that got into police trouble. Similarly a private company cannot put up signs that suddenly make ignoring them a criminal offence.

Nope, but it's not my job to collate this information and me not having it doesn't mean anything.
If a police car were to spot you or I driving the wrong way down a one way avenue in a carpark that is classed as a road, I dare say they would have powers to issue a ticket?

Rover_Driver

A car park is not a road - Clarke and others v Kato, Smith and General Accident Fire & Life Assurance Corporation, House of Lords, 1998. 

Aretnap

BOWFER said:

Sandtree said:

BOWFER said:

Sandtree said:

Its a carpark, markings are not legally enforceable. 

Are you sure about that?
If it's a carpark with 'unhindered access' (IE no gates/barriers and is open to be driven on at any time of day) it's classed as a public road and normal road laws apply.
This is why anyone damaging your car in such a car park can be charged with leaving the scene of an accident.

Can you point to a single case of someone being prosecuted or getting a FPN for driving in the wrong direction in a car park with no aggravating factors? Given this "offence" happens at least hundreds of times a day there must be tens of thousands out there to select from.

Can't point to the relevant legislation but there are rules and regulations etc about the placing of roadsigns that must be obeyed... there was the news story a while back when a village put their own speed limit sign up and then using speed cameras tried to get drivers prosecuted for breaking the speed limit but they were the ones that got into police trouble. Similarly a private company cannot put up signs that suddenly make ignoring them a criminal offence.

Nope, but it's not my job to collate this information and me not having it doesn't mean anything.
If a police car were to spot you or I driving the wrong way down a one way avenue in a carpark that is classed as a road, I dare say they would have powers to issue a ticket?

No they wouldn't. At least not for disobeying a traffic sign - that applies only to signs on a public road places with lawful authority with a lawful traffic regulation order to back them up. Not to the markings that a supermarket puts on its car park.

As it's a public place (but not a public road) the prohibition on careless driving does still apply, so you could potentially be charged with careless driving, if your driving fell below the standard expected of a competent, careful driver. Does driving the wrong way up a lane in a car park fall below that standard? Perhaps, if you do it at high speed on a busy Sunday lunchtime and cause an accident. Perhaps not if the car park is deserted and there is no risk to anybody. Definitely not if you briefly go against the direction indicated while reversing into a space. In other words it depends on the circumstances; the fact that there is a white arrow painted on the lane in the car park doesn't in and of itself make driving in the other direction illegal. 

BOWFER

Rover_Driver said:

A car park is not a road - Clarke and others v Kato, Smith and General Accident Fire & Life Assurance Corporation, House of Lords, 1998. 

Maybe different in England, but in Scotland an 'unhindered access' car park is classed as a road and road laws apply.
Hence a woman I know getting 6 points and a hefty fine for bumpting someone in an Asda car park and legging it under the assumption she'd not have to face any compeback.
Leaving the scene of an accident.

BOWFER

Aretnap said:

Definitely not if you briefly go against the direction indicated while reversing into a space. In other words it depends on the circumstances; the fact that there is a white arrow painted on the lane in the car park doesn't in and of itself make driving in the other direction illegal. 

There's the rub in this incident.
Party A wasn't just reversing into a space near Party B.
It's clearly stated they reversed quite a distance down the wrong way (actually, it's not been confirmed it was the wrong way, I'm just throwing it out there as a possibility).

cymruchris

BOWFER said:

It's clearly stated they reversed quite a distance down the wrong way (actually, it's not been confirmed it was the wrong way, I'm just throwing it out there as a possibility).

So it's clearly stated and also not confirmed. (None of us were there to see distances and speeds)

The OP has received quite a number of views - the majority of which support 50:50 - now it'll be up to the insurance companies to decide depending on who says what on their claim forms. Hopefully the OP will drop back at a later date to let us know the outcome. It's something I've seen happen many times - luckily the damage was minor - and to a vehicle rather than a pedestrian. 

DB1904

BOWFER said:

Rover_Driver said:

A car park is not a road - Clarke and others v Kato, Smith and General Accident Fire & Life Assurance Corporation, House of Lords, 1998. 

Maybe different in England, but in Scotland an 'unhindered access' car park is classed as a road and road laws apply.
Hence a woman I know getting 6 points and a hefty fine for bumpting someone in an Asda car park and legging it under the assumption she'd not have to face any compeback.
Leaving the scene of an accident.

Fail to stop/report and accident would see six point. Unhindered access would make it a public place not a road. Some offence apply in a public place some on a road. 

Car_54

BOWFER said:

Rover_Driver said:

A car park is not a road - Clarke and others v Kato, Smith and General Accident Fire & Life Assurance Corporation, House of Lords, 1998. 

Maybe different in England, but in Scotland an 'unhindered access' car park is classed as a road and road laws apply.
Hence a woman I know getting 6 points and a hefty fine for bumpting someone in an Asda car park and legging it under the assumption she'd not have to face any compeback.
Leaving the scene of an accident.

It is not different. A car park is not a 'road' (even in Scotland), but it may be a 'public place' in which case some 'road' offences apply, e.g. failure to stop  and report in your friend's case.

DB1904

Road offences to not apply in a car park that isn't a road. If the legislation states road it must be a road.