Lovesholiday cancelled but flight went ahead..

choccielover

We booked a few days in Spain last year but then the advice changed again and so we were asked by loveholidays (by text)

” The government advises against all but essential travel to your destination. Please see the government website and our FAQs for more information. If you no longer wish to travel, you can cancel your booking and we will follow up via email to give you the options to amend your booking, request a cash refund or take a refund credit note. Please note, flight change options and refunds for flight cancellations will be subject to individual airline policies over which we have no control. Please reply by 9am on the 17th of August (Monday) with YES if you still wish to travel. Reply with NO if you no longer wish to travel and would like us to cancel your booking and enable your cancellation options in Manage My Booking. If we do not hear from you, we will assume you still intend to travel. The loveholidays team”

we confirmed No but as we had booked and have an atol certificate to prove, we booked a package I assumed we would get refunds for all the holiday. This wasn’t the case and the amount for the flights has to date been withheld. I have tried asking Ryanair but they say the flights went ahead and so no joy, loveholidays say I accepted terms and conditions which said it was my responsibility. 

Do I have any recourse? 

Chocs 

eskbanker

Unfortunately it looks like Loveholidays have been devious here and, by using a very carefully worded message, have engineered the situation where you've unilaterally decided to cancel, thereby absolving them of any responsibility to issue a full refund.  They'd have known full well that a Ryanair booking would have been non-refundable so it was disingenuous to imply otherwise, although if Loveholidays had cancelled the holiday (or if you'd done so while citing the 'unavoidable and extraordinary circumstances' provisions within the Package Travel Regulations) then they'd have been obliged to refund the flights as well as the accommodation, but as it is you're at the mercy of the customer-initiated cancellation clause of the LH Ts & Cs....

choccielover

Lesson learnt I suppose - I wondered if it might be worth trying a section73 - it’s too late for chargeback. 

It’s £275 so not the end of the world - but rather annoying to have been essentially conned out of it when I could have booked the whole holiday myself cheaper but booked a package for the protection it offered (that I then didn’t get!) 
Thank you for the reply 

eskbanker

A section 75 claim requires a breach of contract (or misrepresentation) to succeed, but they don't appear to have breached the contract here (or misrepresented the services to be provided)?

mattyprice4004

'Please note, flight change options and refunds for flight cancellations will be subject to individual airline policies over which we have no control.'
This seems pretty clear to me unfortunately - if in doubt it'd have been best to check with LH before confirming either way 

bagand96

LoveHolidays are one of the agents that resigned from ABTA as they did not agree with ABTA’s interpretation that FCO advice against “all but essential travel” constituted cancellation rights under the Package Travel Regulations “extraordinary and unavoidable circumstances affecting the performance of the package”.

It was because of this exact situation.  Unlike traditional Tour Operators who manage their own flight seats, LH are just a package arranger who pair 3rd party flights with a hotel booking to create the holiday.  They wouldn’t get a refund from Ryanair so would be on the hook themselves for that money.  

ABTA came out (after a lot of delay and faffing) and said they would expect their members to refund customers all monies in that circumstance.  LoveHolidays (and OnTheBeach) didn’t like that so left ABTA. 

Butts

bagand96 said:

LoveHolidays are one of the agents that resigned from ABTA as they did not agree with ABTA’s interpretation that FCO advice against “all but essential travel” constituted cancellation rights under the Package Travel Regulations “extraordinary and unavoidable circumstances affecting the performance of the package”.

It was because of this exact situation.  Unlike traditional Tour Operators who manage their own flight seats, LH are just a package arranger who pair 3rd party flights with a hotel booking to create the holiday.  They wouldn’t get a refund from Ryanair so would be on the hook themselves for that money.  

ABTA came out (after a lot of delay and faffing) and said they would expect their members to refund customers all monies in that circumstance.  LoveHolidays (and OnTheBeach) didn’t like that so left ABTA. 

Begs the question, why after this and their performance last year, anyone is dumb enough to make a new booking with either ?

bagand96

Butts said:

bagand96 said:

LoveHolidays are one of the agents that resigned from ABTA as they did not agree with ABTA’s interpretation that FCO advice against “all but essential travel” constituted cancellation rights under the Package Travel Regulations “extraordinary and unavoidable circumstances affecting the performance of the package”.

It was because of this exact situation.  Unlike traditional Tour Operators who manage their own flight seats, LH are just a package arranger who pair 3rd party flights with a hotel booking to create the holiday.  They wouldn’t get a refund from Ryanair so would be on the hook themselves for that money.  

ABTA came out (after a lot of delay and faffing) and said they would expect their members to refund customers all monies in that circumstance.  LoveHolidays (and OnTheBeach) didn’t like that so left ABTA. 

Begs the question, why after this and their performance last year, anyone is dumb enough to make a new booking with either ?

I think it's a bit harsh calling people dumb.

Thousands book every year with OTA's for better for worse.  Unless you have a fairly decent understanding of the industry, or examine the T&C's in detail, the average Joe Public probably doesn't understand the technical differences between a Tour Operator and a Package Arranger. 

Events like Covid do raise the issues to a wider audience from time to time (as did the Icelandic Volcano)

Butts

bagand96 said:

Butts said:

bagand96 said:

LoveHolidays are one of the agents that resigned from ABTA as they did not agree with ABTA’s interpretation that FCO advice against “all but essential travel” constituted cancellation rights under the Package Travel Regulations “extraordinary and unavoidable circumstances affecting the performance of the package”.

It was because of this exact situation.  Unlike traditional Tour Operators who manage their own flight seats, LH are just a package arranger who pair 3rd party flights with a hotel booking to create the holiday.  They wouldn’t get a refund from Ryanair so would be on the hook themselves for that money.  

ABTA came out (after a lot of delay and faffing) and said they would expect their members to refund customers all monies in that circumstance.  LoveHolidays (and OnTheBeach) didn’t like that so left ABTA. 

Begs the question, why after this and their performance last year, anyone is dumb enough to make a new booking with either ?

I think it's a bit harsh calling people dumb.

Thousands book every year with OTA's for better for worse.  Unless you have a fairly decent understanding of the industry, or examine the T&C's in detail, the average Joe Public probably doesn't understand the technical differences between a Tour Operator and a Package Arranger. 

Events like Covid do raise the issues to a wider audience from time to time (as did the Icelandic Volcano)

Seemingly not everyone - caveat emptor !!

bagand96

Butts said:

bagand96 said:

Butts said:

bagand96 said:

LoveHolidays are one of the agents that resigned from ABTA as they did not agree with ABTA’s interpretation that FCO advice against “all but essential travel” constituted cancellation rights under the Package Travel Regulations “extraordinary and unavoidable circumstances affecting the performance of the package”.

It was because of this exact situation.  Unlike traditional Tour Operators who manage their own flight seats, LH are just a package arranger who pair 3rd party flights with a hotel booking to create the holiday.  They wouldn’t get a refund from Ryanair so would be on the hook themselves for that money.  

ABTA came out (after a lot of delay and faffing) and said they would expect their members to refund customers all monies in that circumstance.  LoveHolidays (and OnTheBeach) didn’t like that so left ABTA. 

Begs the question, why after this and their performance last year, anyone is dumb enough to make a new booking with either ?

I think it's a bit harsh calling people dumb.

Thousands book every year with OTA's for better for worse.  Unless you have a fairly decent understanding of the industry, or examine the T&C's in detail, the average Joe Public probably doesn't understand the technical differences between a Tour Operator and a Package Arranger. 

Events like Covid do raise the issues to a wider audience from time to time (as did the Icelandic Volcano)

Seemingly not everyone - caveat emptor !!

It doesn’t really matter as the public have very short memories, especially when it comes to putting their hand in their pocket. 

The Icelandic Volcano was a case in point and the reason I mentioned it.... Reading MSE forums at that time you’d have been sure Ryanair weren’t long for the world afterwards.  Nobody was going to fly with them ever again.... they were a disgrace..... surely it couldn’t be legal..... etc etc.  All that bad press really hurt Ryanair obviously...

AndreaParr

Butts said:

bagand96 said:

LoveHolidays are one of the agents that resigned from ABTA as they did not agree with ABTA’s interpretation that FCO advice against “all but essential travel” constituted cancellation rights under the Package Travel Regulations “extraordinary and unavoidable circumstances affecting the performance of the package”.

It was because of this exact situation.  Unlike traditional Tour Operators who manage their own flight seats, LH are just a package arranger who pair 3rd party flights with a hotel booking to create the holiday.  They wouldn’t get a refund from Ryanair so would be on the hook themselves for that money.  

ABTA came out (after a lot of delay and faffing) and said they would expect their members to refund customers all monies in that circumstance.  LoveHolidays (and OnTheBeach) didn’t like that so left ABTA. 

Begs the question, why after this and their performance last year, anyone is dumb enough to make a new booking with either ?

Because many people are already tired of this situation with restrictions and people are looking for the smallest way to relax.