Property developer trying to take land back from young family

Pshpp1

newsgroupmonkey_ said:

They need to dip their hands in their pocket. Either heavily compensate you for the inconvenience or drop the asking price on the other house based on the slight loss of garden.

They've offered us an insultingly small amount of compensation, which we can't accept, even if we were confident that the change would be handled legally (ie not impact mortgage or resalability) and professionally (ie not their staff). It equates to 0.5% of the property value. In an early example someone was talking about ~ 10x that amount.
I asked them to consider reducing the sale price of the house behind. They said they couldn't because they'd already exchanged contracts with the buyer... 

getmore4less

You can get the planning history for the property.
9  to go through from the outline(12/04141/OUT) to all the dischage of conditions.
396 docs for the outline a lot seem to be objections.
DM/15/4736  has loads more information.
then looking at  what's on the ground(and what's being proposed) looks very different to the proposals in the planning
(not checked them all for further modifications.)
DM/15/5087 | Discharge of conditions 6, 10, 11, 13, 16 of planning permission 12/04141/OUT


Is the garage door to the rear  as it would be the side with that fence line in the planning.


Buyers won't be happy there is a boundary dispute and they could have their mortgage withdrawn
If they still have properties to sell wonder if a big sign

Beware 
Boundary  dispute with BOVIS over the position of this  X years old fence

Section62

Pshpp1 said:

This is the case whether or not the plan is ‘for the purposes of identification only’. The question for the court is: What would the reasonable layperson think they were buying?
I'm reasonable. I bought a house with a garden which I saw, which was expertly built by the seller, and was described in a plan that looks very much like the size and shape of the garden that was built. 
I don't think a reasonable layperson would try to scale the garden size or shape from the transfer plan and then attend the property to double check the garden size and shape with a tape measure, and I don't think a reasonable layperson would feel it necessary to have a survey conducted to confirm that either.

You missed out the all-important preceding paragraph...

"Case law establishes that the position of the legal boundary will depend on the terms of the relevant pre-registration conveyance or the transfer as a whole, including, of course, the plan. If the plan is insufficiently clear for the reasonable layperson to determine the position of the boundary, the court can refer to extrinsic evidence and in particular to the physical features on the ground at the time."

...With new-build the plan you were given was almost certainly generated from the developer's CAD model, rather than an OS base, and therefore the source is millimetre accurate. It is unlikely the plan was insufficiently clear, if Bovis can demonstrate that to the court's satisfaction you won't get very far.  So what did the plan that Bovis supplied to your solicitor look like?  Was it OS or CAD? Did it have any dimensions on it?

Pshpp1 said:

It equates to 0.5% of the property value. In an early example someone was talking about ~ 10x that amount.
 

What people on the interweb say you should get isn't necessarily what you will get.  Is 0.5% of the property value on top of them doing all the work (professionally) to move the shed/decking/landscaping etc? I.e. 0.5% as pure compensation for the inconvenience?

Unless Bovis fold, for you to get more than currently offered you are likely to need a solicitor, and risk the costs associated with that.  You'd need to factor in the risk, plus the ongoing stress of dealing with a legal dispute, and decide whether the sum of money you have in mind is worth it.

getmore4less

OK as a follow up I had a look at the landscaping conditions.

DM/16/3312 | Discharge of conditions nos. 1, 2, 3 and 4 in relation to application DM/15/4736.

now the plot plan has changed to close to what we have. dates 30/march 2018




interesting that there is  a shed base on the plans and  a water butt for all houses.

Pshpp1

Section62 said:

You missed out the all-important preceding paragraph...

"Case law establishes that the position of the legal boundary will depend on the terms of the relevant pre-registration conveyance or the transfer as a whole, including, of course, the plan. If the plan is insufficiently clear for the reasonable layperson to determine the position of the boundary, the court can refer to extrinsic evidence and in particular to the physical features on the ground at the time."

...With new-build the plan you were given was almost certainly generated from the developer's CAD model, rather than an OS base, and therefore the source is millimetre accurate. It is unlikely the plan was insufficiently clear, if Bovis can demonstrate that to the court's satisfaction you won't get very far.  So what did the plan that Bovis supplied to your solicitor look like?  Was it OS or CAD? Did it have any dimensions on it?

Thank you again for your responses.
I've included below a copy from Land Registry of the Transfer Plan, which you could purchase for £7 so I have no issue sharing this section for reference. I've deleted everyone's signatures although you could buy those as I said.


We signed an A3 copy. The sheet has on it a scale (1:1000 at A3), and an indication of North but nothing else. No point of reference (maybe my fence is right and everything else is in the wrong place!), no explicit dimensions, and no comment on accuracy (which is typical for a technical drawing.). It does not comment on what standards it's drawn to, so we can't infer anything about line thickness or tolerance etc. 
So I would argue that if the fenceline on this plan has to be followed to the millimeter, then everything else does to. So when I overlay this on the rest of the development and various bits don't match, are they going to change those too? No, because actually none of this has to be followed to the millimeter, and they don't get to pick and choose which bits do and don't.
This plan, which I reviewed and signed as part of the exchange of contract, in my view as a layperson is a good description of the garden and fence line purchased. As it includes no key dimensions or points of reference, I can do no more than confirm that it looks about right, which is what's expected.

getmore4less

That looks the same as the landscaping one in the planning apps.

I think they are from the same CAD for the development with different layers.
The plans changed at some point  as the details got sorted.

There is another drawing with  the specs for landscaping.

Pshpp1

getmore4less said:

OK as a follow up I had a look at the landscaping conditions.

DM/16/3312 | Discharge of conditions nos. 1, 2, 3 and 4 in relation to application DM/15/4736.
now the plot plan has changed to close to what we have. dates 30/march 2018
interesting that there is  a shed base on the plans and  a water butt for all houses.

How are you finding all this?
Yeah we didn't get a shed, shed base or a water butt They only follow what suits them. If stuff changes in their favor then the plans are a guide; if they want more land another way then the plans must be followed perfectly.

getmore4less

Pshpp1 said:

getmore4less said:

OK as a follow up I had a look at the landscaping conditions.

DM/16/3312 | Discharge of conditions nos. 1, 2, 3 and 4 in relation to application DM/15/4736.
now the plot plan has changed to close to what we have. dates 30/march 2018
interesting that there is  a shed base on the plans and  a water butt for all houses.

How are you finding all this?
Yeah we didn't get a shed, shed base or a water butt They only follow what suits them. If stuff changes in their favor then the plans are a guide; if they want more land another way then the plans must be followed perfectly.

It in the planning applications for the development.
If you put your property address you get a list of 9 seperate application directly relevant to your house.

There are probably others related to the overall site.

Surprised you have not been through them before bought pretty standard thing to do.

There is a map interface on the planning portal which is the way I went in.

A few hundred objections from the locals handy to find out the names of people that live there.

getmore4less

this is the hard landscaping that includes the fence descriptions and the water but and shed base.
zoom in to read the words.
dates 3/8/2016
https://padocs.midsussex.gov.uk/PublicDocuments/00454202.pdf
red fence(between plots 1.8 panel
blue fence (external boundary)  1.8 close boarded. 
red blob in the corner water but. 




DM/15/4736 | Reserved matters application for details of the appearance, landscaping, layout and scale following outline permission 12/04141/OUT
https://padocs.midsussex.gov.uk/PublicDocuments/00444207.pdf
has the new layout for the plot dated 13/6/16)

prowla

Is the Land Registry the sole place which defines who owns the land?

If so, does it matter what the developer's plans were or have evolved to be?