Advice Needed - Lodger Agreement between "friends"

Steameh

Hi all,
I'll try to bullet point this so it's easy to follow the situation. Need some advice here please.

• I was looking for a temporary living place 3 months ago, knew my friend was considering renting his spare room and bathroom out.
• Agreed as friends it's only short term but he insisted on doing a proper contract with 6 months on it, I was cool with this as it gave me some security.
• Between us verbally agreed that the contract wouldn't stand, when I'm ready to move out we just forget about the contract, refund any monies etc.
• I have a son (3yrs) who was in the initial discussions whether or not I'd be able to accommodate him at my friends. After living here myself for 3 months, it wouldn't work out having my son here anyway (another topic completely).
• Had conversation with friend about this, we both agreed it wouldn't work and that I'd start to look for a rental for myself and my son.
• I found somewhere last week and was accepted. Passed all referencing etc but have yet to sign a tenancy agreement as they're waiting for the previous tenant to move out.
• Provisional moving date of the 25th June but could be earlier if tenant moves out sooner and hands keys back
• Ran this all by my friend, said it'll be approximately 3 weeks, he congratulates me on getting a place, think we're both happy it's coming to an end, he realises he doesn't  actually want to share his house.

That's where we are up to this morning... Baring in mind I pay him the £500 monthly fee on the 1st of the month, of which I had already paid him. Approx an hour later, he starts a convo in the kitchen then comes out with "I've booked a week off on the 14th June and I'd quite like to spend some time at the house on my own, do you think you'd be able to move out sooner". I explain that the provisional date is the 25th and that I may be able to get the keys earlier but can't guarantee this.

He then proceeds to suggest I move back into my ex's for a week, or my Mum's, so he can have a week to himself. I explain that it's not really ideal, I'm paying him to live here etc but he's pretty insistent on needing this week to himself.

Now there are several concerns I have with this, more bullet points.

1. Say I can move to my Mum's and get some money back from him. The tenancy on the new place falls through for whatever obscure reason (unlikely but possible). I'm then stuck at my Mum's until I manage to find something else (not ideal for my Mum, my son or myself)
2. Legally (since we have a 6 month contract) what can he do if I say I'm not moving out until I have the new place.

Any advice on this muchly appreciated.
Thanks

moneysavinghero

Why not book a holiday yourself. Tell the friend you will take yourself away from the property for a few days to give him the space he wants. But that you will you then back up until the 25th when you (hope) you will be leaving.

If you say you are not moving out he could make you pay to the end of the contract.

Steameh

moneysavinghero said:

Why not book a holiday yourself. Tell the friend you will take yourself away from the property for a few days to give him the space he wants. But that you will you then back up until the 25th when you (hope) you will be leaving.

If you say you are not moving out he could make you pay to the end of the contract.

I don't feel I should have to take my holiday to fulfil his request when I'm paying him good money to stay here?

Is it unreasonable of me to ask him for something in writing to say the contract is null and void?

moneysavinghero

As it stands he would be in his rights to ask you to pay to the end of the contract. I presume you don't want to do this. So just play ball.

Or you could go with option 1 and move in with your mum. But make it clear that you are just moving out to give him the space for a week. You will be moving back in on the 25th should the rental fall through. As you have a 6 month contract he cannot say no.

MaryNB

If he forced you to pay up to the end of the contract he would be cutting off his nose to spite his face. By doing that he's saying you cannot break the contract; therefore, you have the right to stay there until the 6 months is up. 

You could get it in writing that he is accepting surrender of the tenancy on the 25th of June. However, by doing so you are then removing your own right to live there after the 25th of June. 
It's his own fault for giving you a 6 month contract. As far as I'm aware a lodger agreement can be periodic, it doesn't need to have a minimum initial fixed term. 

[Deleted User]

You need to come to an agreement, preferably in writing about the move out date and rent due. It sounds unlikely that such an agreement will include a flexible option to stay on after 25th. But it doesnt sound as if you will have to pay out the remainder of the 6 months rent which is the fortunate thing as that is really a major part of the contract in the first place. You might just decide to accept leaving on the even earlier date, so long as your rent is refunded before you leave. 

[Deleted User]

Steameh said:

Hi all,
I'll try to bullet point this so it's easy to follow the situation. Need some advice here please.

• I was looking for a temporary living place 3 months ago, knew my friend was considering renting his spare room and bathroom out.
• Agreed as friends it's only short term but he insisted on doing a proper contract with 6 months on it, I was cool with this as it gave me some security.
• Between us verbally agreed that the contract wouldn't stand, when I'm ready to move out we just forget about the contract, refund any monies etc.
• I have a son (3yrs) who was in the initial discussions whether or not I'd be able to accommodate him at my friends. After living here myself for 3 months, it wouldn't work out having my son here anyway (another topic completely).
• Had conversation with friend about this, we both agreed it wouldn't work and that I'd start to look for a rental for myself and my son.
• I found somewhere last week and was accepted. Passed all referencing etc but have yet to sign a tenancy agreement as they're waiting for the previous tenant to move out.
• Provisional moving date of the 25th June but could be earlier if tenant moves out sooner and hands keys back
• Ran this all by my friend, said it'll be approximately 3 weeks, he congratulates me on getting a place, think we're both happy it's coming to an end, he realises he doesn't  actually want to share his house.

That's where we are up to this morning... Baring in mind I pay him the £500 monthly fee on the 1st of the month, of which I had already paid him. Approx an hour later, he starts a convo in the kitchen then comes out with "I've booked a week off on the 14th June and I'd quite like to spend some time at the house on my own, do you think you'd be able to move out sooner". I explain that the provisional date is the 25th and that I may be able to get the keys earlier but can't guarantee this.

He then proceeds to suggest I move back into my ex's for a week, or my Mum's, so he can have a week to himself. I explain that it's not really ideal, I'm paying him to live here etc but he's pretty insistent on needing this week to himself.

Now there are several concerns I have with this, more bullet points.

1. Say I can move to my Mum's and get some money back from him. The tenancy on the new place falls through for whatever obscure reason (unlikely but possible). I'm then stuck at my Mum's until I manage to find something else (not ideal for my Mum, my son or myself)
2. Legally (since we have a 6 month contract) what can he do if I say I'm not moving out until I have the new place.

Any advice on this muchly appreciated.
Thanks

1) As you say, the rental property is unlikely to fall through and even if it did it should only be a matter of weeks to find another property.

2) Legally he could hold you to the contract you both willingly signed.  For the record he was foolish in getting a lodger to sign a 6 month contract, friend or not.

I do think he is being a bit cheeky accepting rent from you to then ask you to vacate your home for a week.  Why can't he take his week off after the 25th?  Anyway, what I think I would do in this situation is to move back into my mum's, if that's an option, on the 14th June and end the lodger agreement at that time too.  He doesn't want you there whilst he's off and you want to move out before the 6 months is up so you both need to give a little.  If he pulled any stunts then I'd be tempted to see out my 6 month contract and take up the tuba.

Steameh

moneysavinghero said:

As it stands he would be in his rights to ask you to pay to the end of the contract. I presume you don't want to do this. So just play ball.

Or you could go with option 1 and move in with your mum. But make it clear that you are just moving out to give him the space for a week. You will be moving back in on the 25th should the rental fall through. As you have a 6 month contract he cannot say no.

I do understand what you're saying, I don't really want to play the 6 month contract card as it could bite me on the !!!!!! if he chooses to enforce it. The only way around this is if the landlord of the new property allows me to delay 2 months which is very unlikely.

Option 1 is a good shout but a again it involves me pulling the 6 month card. Ideally I want that contract void in writing.

Steameh

MaryNB said:

If he forced you to pay up to the end of the contract he would be cutting off his nose to spite his face. By doing that he's saying you cannot break the contract; therefore, you have the right to stay there until the 6 months is up. 

You could get it in writing that he is accepting surrender of the tenancy on the 25th of June. However, by doing so you are then removing your own right to live there after the 25th of June. 
It's his own fault for giving you a 6 month contract. As far as I'm aware a lodger agreement can be periodic, it doesn't need to have a minimum initial fixed term. 

Exactly, he's made it quite clear he doesn't want me to stay there, so why would he enforce the contract. Unless there's a way he can prove I've moved out and enforce it anyway without me being able to move back in?

Once I have signed the tenancy agreement on the new place, is there anyway the landlord can change their mind?

Steameh

[Deleted User] said:

You need to come to an agreement, preferably in writing about the move out date and rent due. It sounds unlikely that such an agreement will include a flexible option to stay on after 25th. But it doesnt sound as if you will have to pay out the remainder of the 6 months rent which is the fortunate thing as that is really a major part of the contract in the first place. You might just decide to accept leaving on the even earlier date, so long as your rent is refunded before you leave. 

That would absolutely be the best case scenario for me, providing I am guaranteed the new property. Win win for all.
I just don't like the idea of moving to my Mum's and then that property falling through.

Steameh

Lover_of_Lycra said:

Steameh said:

Hi all,
I'll try to bullet point this so it's easy to follow the situation. Need some advice here please.

• I was looking for a temporary living place 3 months ago, knew my friend was considering renting his spare room and bathroom out.
• Agreed as friends it's only short term but he insisted on doing a proper contract with 6 months on it, I was cool with this as it gave me some security.
• Between us verbally agreed that the contract wouldn't stand, when I'm ready to move out we just forget about the contract, refund any monies etc.
• I have a son (3yrs) who was in the initial discussions whether or not I'd be able to accommodate him at my friends. After living here myself for 3 months, it wouldn't work out having my son here anyway (another topic completely).
• Had conversation with friend about this, we both agreed it wouldn't work and that I'd start to look for a rental for myself and my son.
• I found somewhere last week and was accepted. Passed all referencing etc but have yet to sign a tenancy agreement as they're waiting for the previous tenant to move out.
• Provisional moving date of the 25th June but could be earlier if tenant moves out sooner and hands keys back
• Ran this all by my friend, said it'll be approximately 3 weeks, he congratulates me on getting a place, think we're both happy it's coming to an end, he realises he doesn't  actually want to share his house.

That's where we are up to this morning... Baring in mind I pay him the £500 monthly fee on the 1st of the month, of which I had already paid him. Approx an hour later, he starts a convo in the kitchen then comes out with "I've booked a week off on the 14th June and I'd quite like to spend some time at the house on my own, do you think you'd be able to move out sooner". I explain that the provisional date is the 25th and that I may be able to get the keys earlier but can't guarantee this.

He then proceeds to suggest I move back into my ex's for a week, or my Mum's, so he can have a week to himself. I explain that it's not really ideal, I'm paying him to live here etc but he's pretty insistent on needing this week to himself.

Now there are several concerns I have with this, more bullet points.

1. Say I can move to my Mum's and get some money back from him. The tenancy on the new place falls through for whatever obscure reason (unlikely but possible). I'm then stuck at my Mum's until I manage to find something else (not ideal for my Mum, my son or myself)
2. Legally (since we have a 6 month contract) what can he do if I say I'm not moving out until I have the new place.

Any advice on this muchly appreciated.
Thanks

1) As you say, the rental property is unlikely to fall through and even if it did it should only be a matter of weeks to find another property.

2) Legally he could hold you to the contract you both willingly signed.  For the record he was foolish in getting a lodger to sign a 6 month contract, friend or not.

I do think he is being a bit cheeky accepting rent from you to then ask you to vacate your home for a week.  Why can't he take his week off after the 25th?  Anyway, what I think I would do in this situation is to move back into my mum's, if that's an option, on the 14th June and end the lodger agreement at that time too.  He doesn't want you there whilst he's off and you want to move out before the 6 months is up so you both need to give a little.  If he pulled any stunts then I'd be tempted to see out my 6 month contract and take up the tuba.

1) Rentals around here are in such high demand. I enquired about one that had came on one morning, already 30 people arranged viewings. They wouldn't even entertain me.

2) He was adamant on doing it properly, I'd have been happy to keep it on a shorter term basis.

That is what's annoyed me about it all, taking a full months rent then asking me to move out sooner. He has openly said he will refund whatever I'm due but it's all verbal. He won't discuss anything over text. I just have a gut feeling now.