Concerned about venerable man with less than 50 years on his lease

AdrianC

JackSprout said:

I'm pretty sure I do understand the laws well enough to say that Jack has some rights here but if they are not explained to him he will miss out, to the advantage of someone else, e.g. not him.

Can you please explain what you mean by this?

So then it just leaves the new Freeholders treatment Jack going forward, which as I understand it cant deviate too much from the current situation

It cannot deviate AT ALL.
Jack's lease remains exactly the same as it was the day he bought it, right up until the day it expires in the year 2073 or so.

and I'm sure the new Freeholder is more interested in the long term return of the Freehold than short term ground rent increases, but if he doesn't like the new terms then I guess he will have to buy the Freehold of the new owner.

There are no "new terms".

If Jack wishes to extend his lease, THEN AND ONLY THEN can new terms be imposed...
If he were to go through the statutory route, they're defined in law.
If, otoh, he were to go through a mutually negotiated route, then they would be whatever Jack and the freeholder were to agree between them.
The freeholder, whoever it may be, CANNOT unilaterally impose any terms, under any circumstances.
Ground rent can only increase as defined in the lease he bought in the 1980s.

sammyjammy

In what way are you calling this man vulnerable?  If its his age alone its really insulting, my dad is 72 (and barely has an O level to his name!)and is perfectly capable of running his life and household without interference from his children - no matter some stranger that's knocked on the door and is buying one of the other flats!  

JackSprout

So ill explain a bit more what I mean, Jack will be given first refusal as that's the law, however there is no obligation for an explanation to accompany the offer of first refusal. If he is informed then he can make the best decision for himself, if he isn't then he cant can he, and old people need to be given a bit more time and effort don't they. The person buying the Freehold is informed if Jack is also informed and then decides not to buy then that fine, however if in the process of explaining the guy has a heart attack and dies then that would be pretty bad, its a tough call he needs the advice of a solicitor but I doubt he has the means or inclination to engage one, this is a special case obviously I am just hopeful for some consideration.

JGB1955

JackSprout said:

So ill explain a bit more what I mean, Jack will be given first refusal as that's the law, however there is no obligation for an explanation to accompany the offer of first refusal. If he is informed then he can make the best decision for himself, if he isn't then he cant can he, and old people need to be given a bit more time and effort don't they. The person buying the Freehold is informed if Jack is also informed and then decides not to buy then that fine, however if in the process of explaining the guy has a heart attack and dies then that would be pretty bad, its a tough call he needs the advice of a solicitor but I doubt he has the means or inclination to engage one, this is a special case obviously I am just hopeful for some consideration.

You're making a lot of assumptions here:

• that Jack wants to extend his lease
• that 'old' people need to be given more time and effort (a very patronising idea IMO)
• that he doesn't have the resources to employ a solicitor
• that maintaining the status quo might not be in his best interests.

I think you might be best advised to MYOB.

AdrianC

JackSprout said:

So ill explain a bit more what I mean, Jack will be given first refusal as that's the law

"First refusal" of what? Purchasing the freehold for the entire building?

Well, yes, both leaseholders have the right to jointly purchase it, but given there are only two, it would need both to agree to exercise that right jointly.

however there is no obligation for an explanation to accompany the offer of first refusal. If he is informed then he can make the best decision for himself, if he isn't then he cant can he

He's lived in the flat for more than a third of a century without being freeholder, quite happily...

If his health holds up, he may have another 20 years there.
If he needs an extended period of residential care, then the entire value of the flat may go in paying for that anyway.

and old people need to be given a bit more time and effort don't they.

He's only in his 70s, fertheloveofgawd! He may well have been working until a very few years ago...

The person buying the Freehold is informed if Jack is also informed

Informed about what?

and then decides not to buy then that fine

Not to buy what?

however if in the process of explaining the guy

Which guy are we talking about now?

has a heart attack and dies then that would be pretty bad

I can't imagine he'd be very thrilled about being dead, no.

its a tough call he needs the advice of a solicitor but I doubt he has the means or inclination to engage one

Dead people certainly don't usually hire solicitors, so I guess we aren't talking about the guy who just had the fatal heart attack.

 Yes, any property transaction strongly benefits from using a conveyancer, unless you're experienced enough to DIY the paperwork... But if you can't afford the legals, you can't afford the purchase.

And if he (whoever he is) doesn't want to buy the freehold (or whatever we're talking about) in the first place...

this is a special case obviously

Is it? Why?
Because one person (who doesn't want to be involved anyway) is a little bit past state retirement age?

I am just hopeful for some consideration.

Consideration of what by whom?

I'm sorry, but I'm even more confused now than when we started all this... What ARE you on about?

Keswick1uk

Are you Jack's beneficiary?

Gavin83

Keswick1uk said:

Are you Jack's beneficiary?

I was wondering this myself. The OP is showing a huge amount of interest for a complete stranger and the username is quite telling....

SpiderLegs

Oh if only we were all 32 with a higher education and there were no old people wandering round who all need to be condescended to by people who don’t really know what they are on about.

JackSprout

No I just came across this situation and was concerned, and obviously as I said I was interested in the flat upstairs and the ramifications of the short tenancy, I am satisfied now thanks in someway to this forum that this nice senior citizen that I met whilst looking into this is going to be alright. I'm not the sort of person that would walk away from what I considered to be a bit of a sus situation without making sure everything was alright, which it is, and at the same time learn about Freeholds and Leaseholds which I also have. I have no idea why I chose the user name that I did. I do apologise if I have patronised anyone regarding age that was not my intention, ill try to do better next time.

csgohan4

Jack I assume had mental capacity when he bought the flat 30 years ago and aware of the lease then? Do they know about the short lease? Do they actually care? 

Just because some people make financial decision against the norm, doesn't mean they cannot do it, it's their life.