Draft Defence CEL

Anonymouskeith

Redx said:

Anonymouskeith said:

Redx said:

Anonymouskeith said:

Redx said:

please use your previous but existing thread

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6263750/court-defence#latest

and let this new one die

thank you

ps:- 3 is far too long , so paragraph it and renumber

Is it okay other than that? Anything you would add/remove?

you will get comments when you post in your previous thread and answer KeithP,s questions

ie:- dont ask questions until you do as we ask and also answer some yourself, its not one way traffic

thank you

It’s not about one way traffic - the dates as far as I’m concerned are potentially sensitive private information and of no relevance to anybody. I have time left and that’s that as far as I am concerned. I mean that in the politest way. I will of course post in the other thread if you prefer, but I just think it’s better to start again due to the significant tangent it took in my absence from posting. 

your choice, but dont expect advice if you wont answer questions from volunteers who take the time out to try and assist you 

I really do hope nobody would begrudge me simply being wary of disclosing too much/potentially sensitive info online, particularly about a matter like this. 

Redx

we are volunteers, not board guides or admins, so we can do nothing to influence MSE staff, we have tried and failed numerous times, all we get back from them is to stop giving people legal advice when they should be consulting a lawyer (plus I already gave you some advice higher up this thread, which you havent taken onboard in your previous thread new addition)

Anonymouskeith

Redx said:

we are volunteers, not board guides or admins, so we can do nothing to influence MSE staff, we have tried and failed numerous times, all we get back from them is to stop giving people legal advice when they should be consulting a lawyer (plus I already gave you some advice higher up this thread, which you havent taken onboard in your previous thread new addition)

Fair enough, it is a commendable thing you do. I’m away from my PC now unfortunately but can better paragraph it before I submit, if you would be so kind to offer any more advice on it I could get it all done in one go, rather than re-posting again & making piecemeal alterations 

Redx

2) is correct if you are not using POFA and so not defending as a keeper, but as an admitted driver

however, in your other thread you state that you are keeper but not driver (on page 1 ) , so make your mind up, its one or the other or dont know/cant remember

3 & 4 have correct terminology (no I etc) , example being , The Defendant etc, so are your account , of which I cannot comment as I wasnt there and not dealt with any of the facts you present in 3 & 4, but 3 is far too long, a paragraph is typically 6 lines or less, so anyone reading it hasnt forgotten how it started when they finish reading it, or get lost halfway through , so split and renumber, as I said earlier

as landowner authority and poor signage are already in the template thread, I am wondering what your defence points are in 3 & 4 , because I cannot see the BPA CoP mentioned or the CRA or any other lawful legal defence points. but as Umkomaas points out , there is no context without your previously hijacked thread by an FMOTL entity , you said yourself you need core terms in your defence, so where are they ? the above just sets the scene

Anonymouskeith

Redx said:

2) is correct if you are not using POFA and so not defending as a keeper, but as an admitted driver

however, in your other thread you state thet you are keeper but not driver (on page 1 ) , so make your mind up, its one or the other or dont know/cant remember

3 & 4 have correct terminology (no I etc) , example being , The Defendant etc, so are your account , of which I cannot comment as I wasnt there and not dealt with any of the facts you present in 3 & 4, but 3 is far too long, a paragraph is typically 6 lines or less, so anyone reading it hasnt forgotten how it started when they finish reading it, or get lost halfway through , so split and renumber

as landowner authority and poor signage are already in the template thread, I am wondering what your defence points are in 3 & 4 , because I cannot see the BPA CoP mentioned or the CRA or any other lawful legal defence points. but as Umkomaas points out , there is no context without your previously hijacked thread by an FMOTL entity

Will take that onboard, thanks. Tbh, as far as I can see they have unfortunately been compliant with what’s in the bpa stuff. Do you have any suggestions for me that might help my chances? 

Purely hypothetically speaking, would somebody have a better chance of defending one of these if they tried to pay for the ticket but the machine was faulty? It’s notable they did not include the PDT records that I asked for when they returned my SAR. 

Redx

I have never known CEL to comply with POFA, or if so, only recently

only you know your own case, we point you at relevant facts , the CoP, plus various laws , tell you to look at previous cases to look for inspiration , its your job, your only job , to find the relevant facts to back up why the PCN was not paid when it was received (you ignored it, foolish and caused this court case when all this should have been done at POPLA years ago) , so you now have to do the work you put off by ignoring an NTK PCN addressed to you, looking for legal errors to your advantage , icluding the relevant CoP in place at the time

its your case, you do the homework based on what we tell you, nobody here will do it for you, you dont pay us enough to do so, a lawyer would want hundreds of pounds to dissect your case in minutia and come up with legal loopholes, like Nick "Mr Loophole" Freeman who got Beckham off a few years ago, cost David thousands if I recall correctly

I am telling you like it is, politely of course, but do not try to push us into doing it for you because it wont work, I definitely wont go looking for those errors , issues or chinks, not my job , its yours (as they say)

hope that explains what we do here, which is point you at research avenues, tell you a few basics about laws etc, show you a template you can adapt , announcements you can read and we provide critique where necessary, which I have done in these replies

so as they say , OVER TO YOU

KeithP

Anonymouskeith said:

KeithP said:

Is this now three threads we have about this one parking incident?

If so, please ask a board guide to merge your threads.

I did ask on one of your earlier threads for the Issue Date on your County Court Claim Form.
You are yet to respond.
I can also see on one of your threads that you have filed an Acknowledgment of Service. Upon what date did you do that?

I’d rather not disclose that if it’s all the same, I have time left to submit my defence but not much, just want to get an idea of what people think first 

Yes, it's all the same to me.
Sorry I can't help you further. Good luck.

Anonymouskeith

Redx said:

I have never known CEL to comply with POFA, or if so, only recently

only you know your own case, we point you at relevant facts , the CoP, plus various laws , tell you to look at previous cases to look for inspiration , its your job, your only job , to find the relevant facts to back up why the PCN was not paid when it was received (you ignored it, foolish and caused this court case when all this should have been done at POPLA years ago) , so you now have to do the work you put off by ignoring an NTK PCN addressed to you, looking for legal errors to your advantage , icluding the relevant CoP in place at the time

its your case, you do the homework based on what we tell you, nobody here will do it for you, you dont pay us enough to do so, a lawyer would want hundreds of pounds to dissect your case in minutia and come up with legal loopholes, like Nick "Mr Loophole" Freeman who got Beckham off a few years ago, cost David thousands if I recall correctly

I am telling you like it is, politely of course, but do not try to push us into doing it for you because it wont work, I definitely wont go looking for those errors , issues or chinks, not my job , its yours (as they say)

hope that explains what we do here, which is point you at research avenues, tell you a few basics about laws etc, show you a template you can adapt , announcements you can read and we provide critique where necessary, which I have done in these replies

so as they say , OVER TO YOU

In what way do they typically not comply with pofa? I’ve tried understanding it but honestly it hurts my !!!!!! brain. I get your point about not having the time to do it for me, but if you know something, then hey we all want to beat these !!!!!!. 

Redx

as an admitted driver in this thread and your previous thread, POFA does not apply to you or CEL, meaning it says nothing of use for a driver , so its irrelevant in your case, because you were or are keeper and driver on that date last year (it only assists a keeper who was definitely NOT the driver and can truthfully say so in court)

my problem with your latest draft is that like a play in a theatre , its sets the scene, the stage props are on the set, but there is no core plot, no eureka moment where the killer is divulged like in Poirot or Morse, its in limbo where you have told us all the background, plus told the judge who like us has never been there and doesnt know the place at all, but havent stated on what grounds (other than no landowner authority and poor signage which are also in the template as well as paragraphs 3 & 4 ) that the driver is not liable for this invoice which CEL issued (so there is no reveal on the final chapter (paragraph) ), leaving the public hanging and wondering what it was all about

if you cannot tell us, then how can a judge know ? , you said it yourself on page 1 of your other thread, you can set the scene but there is no core item to blow their case out of the water

we werent there, so we dont know either

so think of it this way , you are in court and the judge or claimant asks you if you were the driver ? yes ? no ? or dont know/cannot remember ?

assuming its YES, as that is what you have said on here, their next question is

Mr Keith , in legal terms , why are you not liable for this invoice ?

what is your answer ?

Anonymouskeith

Redx said:

as an admitted driver in this thread and your previous thread, POFA does not apply to you or CEL, meaning it says nothing of use for a driver , so its irrelevant in your case, because you were or are keeper and driver on that date last year (it only assists a keeper who was definitely NOT the driver and can truthfully say so in court)

my problem with your latest draft is that like a play in a theatre , its sets the scene, the stage props are on the set, but there is no core plot, no eureka moment where the killer is divulged like in Poirot or Morse, its in limbo where you have told us all the background, plus told the judge who like us has never been there and doesnt know the place at all, but havent stated on what grounds (other than no landowner authority and poor signage which are also in the template as well as paragraphs 3 & 4 ) that the driver is not liable for this invoice which CEL issued (so there is no reveal on the final chapter (paragraph) ), leaving the public hanging and wondering what it was all about

if you cannot tell us, then how can a judge know ? , you said it yourself on page 1 of your other thread, you can set the scene but there is no core item to blow their case out of the water

we werent there, so we dont know either

For future reference/out of interest could you tell me how they typically fall down on pofa? 

As for the rest, I simply don’t know. I’ve tried my best and I fear that’s as good as it will get. If you’d like to give me any steering then feel free, if not then wish me luck as I’m going to break the current para 3 down into smaller chunks & submit it tomorrow; I’ve tried my hardest and don’t know what more I can do - I’m an engineer, not a lawyer, at the end of the day.