Pension transfer - 'Final Bonus' mystery.

PJD

I have a couple of pensions, both invested in the funds below, - with Aviva.

AV FP With Profits fund main series 1

AV FP With Profits fund main series 21

I am considering transferring them.  Aviva shows me:

Total policy value:
Final bonus:
Transfer value of the plan (total of the above).

My question is, will I get the Final Bonus, if I transfer.  Aviva have stated that they cannot answer this question, as it's considered "advice".
It states on their website: 

If you’re invested in the With-Profit Fund, we may add a final bonus when you take your pension benefits or move your money out of the With-Profit Fund. We base the final bonus on the year in which you invested and the point at which you leave the fund. The final bonus may vary depending on the returns earned by the With-Profit Fund over the time you were invested and is not guaranteed.

I have however requested a "transfer quote" which may give me an idea.

I find it strange that they cannot simply tell me if I would get this bonus or not if I transferred, - is anyone here able to shed any light on this please?

Thanks for reading.

AV FP With Profits fund main series 1

AV FP With Profits fund main series 21
Here's the link to the s21, I cannot find the s1.

https://www.trustnet.com/factsheets/p/m8f4/av-fp-with-profits-pn-s21

dunstonh

cMy question is, will I get the Final Bonus, if I transfer.  Aviva have stated that they cannot answer this question, as it's considered "advice".

The final bonus on unitised with profits plans accrues as you go along.  It is included in the transfer value (although so is any deduction for an MVR or early transfer penalty)

I find it strange that they cannot simply tell me if I would get this bonus or not if I transferred, - is anyone here able to shed any light on this please?

Providers are very nervous of crossing the line to opinion and advice.  They also do not train their call centre workers to be proficient on the hundreds or even thousands of product versions that have existed over the generations.   So, beyond core factual data, the call centre workers will usually say they cannot comment on those areas.

PJD

Many thanks for chiming in here dunstonh - appreciate it.  The pension is a really old one - it was a Government/NI opt out thing/scheme, which was supposed to replace my state pension.  However, this scheme was scrapped sometime ago, so I am left with this lump sum and I am still entitled to a full state pension.  So good decision by my Dad at the time (when I was 17).
So to confirm, and I use these numbers as an example:
Total policy value: £30,000
Final bonus: £10,000
Transfer value of the plan £40,000.
.....allowing some fluctations in the market, I should see something very close to 40k transferred?

I would like to transfer it into my work pension, - it has discounted fees, and I would rather it was invested in those funds rather than these weird 'final bonus' things.

mark55man

the devil is in the detail.  some of the older funds have interesting (and lucrative) features from an age in which interest rates was higher and loadsamoney wasn't just a TV character.  You really need to double check if it is literally a lump sum or if there any rights to annuitise.   @Dunstonh may be able to provide m ore detail of the types of thing - I am not a specialist so I reluctant to even hazard a guess  

sandsy

What rubbish some providers come out with! It's not advice. You're simply asking for factual information. They can give you factual information as it's not considered to be advice. Advice has to involve an element of judgement or opinion. If they won't tell you how their own contract works, they're not treating you fairly or communicating with you in a way that meets your needs. They are required to meet those basic principles when they do business with you.

OldMusicGuy

I transferred a with profits SL pension to my SIPP. I got the same story from SL, they refused to say what the final bonus would be if I transferred. They said they could only do this when I actually transferred the pension. So I spoke with Hargreaves Lansdown (my SIPP was with them at the time) who said they would put in the transfer request to SL, thus triggering them to say what the transfer value would be. But they would then let me know the transfer value and ask if I wanted to go ahead with the transfer before they actioned it. 

As it turned out I got the full bonus that was on my SL statements with no market value reduction. In this case, HL were super helpful. 

Also, I read through all the SL scheme documentation to make sure there were no protected benefits or anything else like that, which there weren't. SL did confirm all of that to me on the phone when I asked.

dunstonh

I transferred a with profits SL pension to my SIPP. I got the same story from SL, they refused to say what the final bonus would be if I transferred.

If you asked the question like that then I can understand them refusing as it's an impossible question to answer.  If you asked what the current final bonus accrued to date is then you would expect an answer.

foofi22

dunstonh said:

I transferred a with profits SL pension to my SIPP. I got the same story from SL, they refused to say what the final bonus would be if I transferred.

If you asked the question like that then I can understand them refusing as it's an impossible question to answer.  If you asked what the current final bonus accrued to date is then you would expect an answer.

A reasonable person might expect them to suggest whilst they couldn't provide an accurate transfer value, they could offer to reveal what the bonus accrued to date is. 

dunstonh

foofi22 said:

dunstonh said:

I transferred a with profits SL pension to my SIPP. I got the same story from SL, they refused to say what the final bonus would be if I transferred.

If you asked the question like that then I can understand them refusing as it's an impossible question to answer.  If you asked what the current final bonus accrued to date is then you would expect an answer.

A reasonable person might expect them to suggest whilst they couldn't provide an accurate transfer value, they could offer to reveal what the bonus accrued to date is. 

You may be right but then again, the average call centre worker is low skilled/ low knowledge and is operating on a script basis.    They may not make the connection that someone with a bit more knowledge would make.  If you are lucky enough to get one of the more skilled ones that are peppered around the call centre then you can get a different outcome.
Some call centres have their staff on 3 month rolling contracts and have absolutely no buy in for the job they are doing.

TVAS

The people you are asking cannot tell the difference between advice and information. You are not asking for advice which is opinion, you are asking for something which is a statement of fact. Yes you will get a final bonus or no you will not get a final bonus. The trouble is they do not hire intelligent people who would challenge nonsense like this with their employer.

There is nothing wrong with saying if you do this, this will happen. Example as person asks how much tax they will pay if they take one of their pensions as a lump sum. One can say the whole amount is added to other earned income and is therefore taxable. 

When I say I think you should take the pension as a lump sum this is ADVICE.

However they should if you ask for a transfer value statement which which confirm the element of final bonus and should say how long it is valid for or if not at all i.e. it fluctuates.

SomeMadeUpName

Thanks to the op for asking this, and to all who responded.  I'm in a similar position with an old contract out of SERPS fund which I want to transfer out when I hit 55 (less than 6 months now) as the transfer out charge drops from something like 5% to 1%.  I will ask for a transfer value statement a few weeks before.  I get an annual statement and this confirms it has no guaranteed annuity rate attached.