Conveyancer is saying 'pull out'.

Jeepers_Creepers

Hi everyone.
A friend has had an offer on a house accepted, and it was assumed it would be as straight-forward a purchase as could be, so she went with a recommended (by another friend) on-line conveyancer.
A few things turned out to be not so straight-forward, tho', and whilst they strike me as being overcomeable, the conveyancer is recommending she pulls out of the purchase.
The first is that the previous owner sold the allocated garage for the house - this is one of a block of garages a couple of streets away, so the actual loss of the garage is no big deal, and there is plenty of on-street parking. However, the deeds still apparently refer to this (these) garage forecourt(s) to state that the house owner has RoW across the forecourt, and is therefore still technically liable to contribute to its upkeep. The previous owner - and my friend - want nothing to do with this block of garages, and will never need or wish to take advantage of the RoW, so would be miffed to say the least if the current garage owner suddenly asked for help in its upkeep...  
So question for this point is, how easy would it be for the current owner to amend the deeds properly to remove all obligation to this potential upkeep?
The second issue is that, the LH side garden wall at the front could be wrongly positioned by around a metre to the benefit of the householder; the tiny plan with the deeds suggests that this wall should be in line with the side wall of the house, whereas it's clearly further to the left. Beyond the wall is 4 allocated parking spaces to other houses, so it's a mystery what this metre could have been before. My friend's conveyancer is trying to find out when the wall was built.
Question for this baby is, if it can be shown that the wall has been there in excess of 12 years (which it most likely has), what is the process of adverse possession? Can it just be left as it is until or unless someone raises an objection, or should the new owner carry out some action in order to confirm the AP?
Many thanks.

AnotherJoe

You have to understand that the major reason for the conveyancer to recommend pulling out is not just (or even primarily) to protect their client but to protect themselves. So if friend goes ahead with purchase and later has issues (perhaps on a subsequent sale) the conveyancer can say "well we did warn you not to proceed so thats down to you look at this disclaimer you signed".

Now, IANAL but I dont see how, if the deeds say "you own this land with this obligation" that you can arbitrarily foist that off on to someone else by amending the deeds without their permission! (or even if there is no obligation)

No idea about the side wall.

AlexMac

Or maybe your "friend" should find a solicitor locally who can sort these all-too-common glitches with the Title, rather than try to save a few quid by using an online conveyancer who wants a quiet life?

I've maybe been lucky, but on a couple of purchases (ours and our kids one) the solicitor has simply sorted dodgy issues like this- and always at the vendors' expense.  Everything is fixable, but sometimes it takes time, money or expertise.

Our kids' last purchase was problematic, in part because their vendor was skint, in negative equity, and cut corners; they used a c4rp online service who effectively added 2 months to the process.  The buy was great one (ideal area, price and house) however, despite problems of it being an unregistered 90-year-old leasehold house without a proper lease (so very unusual Title)  and our kids own house sale was at too good a price to lose.  So they sold, stored their furniture and moved into a holiday let for a couple of months to get the kids into school on the new area, 100+ miles away, at the start of a school term.  I think they eventually just paid their solicitor a couple of grand to fix it, and ended up buying out the leasehold but still got a good deal, and still live there happily, several years on.

So maybe a chat with a solicitor local to you...?   

teachfast

AlexMac said:

Or maybe your "friend" should find a solicitor locally who can sort these all-too-common glitches with the Title, rather than try to save a few quid by using an online conveyancer who wants a quiet life?

I've maybe been lucky, but on a couple of purchases (ours and our kids one) the solicitor has simply sorted dodgy issues like this- and always at the vendors' expense.  Everything is fixable, but sometimes it takes time, money or expertise.

Our kids' last purchase was problematic, in part because their vendor was skint, in negative equity, and cut corners; they used a c4rp online service who effectively added 2 months to the process.  The buy was great one (ideal area, price and house) however, despite problems of it being an unregistered 90-year-old leasehold house without a proper lease (so very unusual Title)  and our kids own house sale was at too good a price to lose.  So they sold, stored their furniture and moved into a holiday let for a couple of months to get the kids into school on the new area, 100+ miles away, at the start of a school term.  I think they eventually just paid their solicitor a couple of grand to fix it, and ended up buying out the leasehold but still got a good deal, and still live there happily, several years on.

So maybe a chat with a solicitor local to you...?   

Oh, believe me, local solicitors can also be really crap, cause unnecessary delays and communicate badly. You got lucky, not from hiring someone local but from finding the rare nugget that is a conveyancer who took their professionalism seriously.

Scotbot

teachfast said:

AlexMac said:

Or maybe your "friend" should find a solicitor locally who can sort these all-too-common glitches with the Title, rather than try to save a few quid by using an online conveyancer who wants a quiet life?

I've maybe been lucky, but on a couple of purchases (ours and our kids one) the solicitor has simply sorted dodgy issues like this- and always at the vendors' expense.  Everything is fixable, but sometimes it takes time, money or expertise.

Our kids' last purchase was problematic, in part because their vendor was skint, in negative equity, and cut corners; they used a c4rp online service who effectively added 2 months to the process.  The buy was great one (ideal area, price and house) however, despite problems of it being an unregistered 90-year-old leasehold house without a proper lease (so very unusual Title)  and our kids own house sale was at too good a price to lose.  So they sold, stored their furniture and moved into a holiday let for a couple of months to get the kids into school on the new area, 100+ miles away, at the start of a school term.  I think they eventually just paid their solicitor a couple of grand to fix it, and ended up buying out the leasehold but still got a good deal, and still live there happily, several years on.

So maybe a chat with a solicitor local to you...?   

Oh, believe me, local solicitors can also be really crap, cause unnecessary delays and communicate badly. You got lucky, not from hiring someone local but from finding the rare nugget that is a conveyancer who took their professionalism seriously.

My local solicitor was excellent. She had been in the job for 30 years and new the area really well. Sometimes you get what you pay for, online conveyancers charge minimum fees but look to do miminum work to meet their targets.
The best wau to select a solicitor is to have a quick chat with them first to see if you get on, if they can't find the time don't even consider them.

Norman_Castle

The row and liability should have been transferred with the garage sale.

Jeepers_Creepers

Thanks everyone.

Yes, that would appear to have been the omission, NormanC. I suspect that it just won't ever be an issue in practice - I doubt the new garage owner is aware of the potential - but it's just one of these things that the person involved is made very nervous by.

Anyone know about 'adverse possession'? (Yeah, I know - I can look it up myself ) Basically, is it 'enough' just to be able to demonstrate that the conditions have been met should anyone happen to challenge it, or should ratifying action be taken to make it 'legal' regardless?

princeofpounds

The side wall being in slightly the wrong place is not important, especially if your friend could live with losing that space. Boundaries on a plan are just general boundaries, designed to help locate the physical features on the ground that define the boundary. Sometimes those physical features aren't quite mapped properly, or they move - river banks being the classic case, but new walls can be put up next to old walls etc.

If the wall has been in place for long enough then it basically becomes the new boundary. If the old owner wants to come and fight you for it then a court will eventually decide. Or you just give it up for a quiet life.

The garage issue is a bit trickier. The sale was clearly mishandled IF liability for maintenance on this ROW was not transferred away from the property. Firstly, I assume liability is explicitly written? You aren't liable just because you have use of a ROW. Your friend could take the risk - being asked to tarmac a small piece of threshold once a decade is not expensive, and you may never be asked. But problems with re-sale is a bigger issue. What should happen is that the vendor should go sign a deed with the garage owner releasing them from this obligation. That may cost money they don't want to spend and they may be unwilling to alert them. So then you (and any other buyer) are a bit stuck - accept this bad deal or walk.

GDB2222

The vendors ought to sort out the garage maintenance issue, or provide a discount to the buyer for taking it on. Either way, it's going to cost the vendors to sort it out, so it's their choice.

If your surveyor found a defect in the roof, you'd expect a price reduction to cover it. Similarly, with a defect in the title, a renegotiation of the price is one way forward.

If the boundary wall is in the wrong place, there's a good chance that nobody will notice, but it's harder to sort out, so I'd want the issue acknowledged in the price.

Of course, if you think the price reduction is minimal, you could just go ahead and not bother.

Norman_Castle

Jeepers_Creepers said:

The second issue is that, the LH side garden wall at the front could be wrongly positioned by around a metre to the benefit of the householder; the tiny plan with the deeds suggests that this wall should be in line with the side wall of the house, whereas it's clearly further to the left. Beyond the wall is 4 allocated parking spaces to other houses, so it's a mystery what this metre could have been before.

Its wrong to assume the wall is on the boundary. Is the wall there to prevent cars parking on a path? For adverse possession the area needs to be treated as if owned. Who has maintained this area?

Are deeds to the garage available? Its possible they state the new owner is liable. If the row wasn't transferred how do they access the garage?

Jeepers_Creepers

princeofpounds said:

The side wall being in slightly the wrong place is not important, especially if your friend could live with losing that space. Boundaries on a plan are just general boundaries, designed to help locate the physical features on the ground that define the boundary. Sometimes those physical features aren't quite mapped properly, or they move - river banks being the classic case, but new walls can be put up next to old walls etc.

If the wall has been in place for long enough then it basically becomes the new boundary. If the old owner wants to come and fight you for it then a court will eventually decide. Or you just give it up for a quiet life.

The garage issue is a bit trickier. The sale was clearly mishandled IF liability for maintenance on this ROW was not transferred away from the property. Firstly, I assume liability is explicitly written? You aren't liable just because you have use of a ROW. Your friend could take the risk - being asked to tarmac a small piece of threshold once a decade is not expensive, and you may never be asked. But problems with re-sale is a bigger issue. What should happen is that the vendor should go sign a deed with the garage owner releasing them from this obligation. That may cost money they don't want to spend and they may be unwilling to alert them. So then you (and any other buyer) are a bit stuck - accept this bad deal or walk.

Thanks PoP - that's very clear.

The only thing that suggests the wall could be in the wrong place is the tiny map on the deeds. The 'house' side of the wall is just part of the front garden, but it would be a deal-breaker if it were lost - it's all been perfectly landscaped.

Just found that the Google 'street view' is from June 2009, so this will be 12 years next month from when the image was taken! It shows the wall being exactly as it is now, so that can be demonstrated - if needed - which I very much doubt it will be. Is that 'enough'? Just to be able to demonstrate that the conditions have been met should anyone happen to challenge it, or should ratifying action be taken to make it 'legal' regardless? It still remains quite/very likely that the house boundary was always in that position.

And for the 'garage' issue, would an 'indemnity' from the vendor work for this, or should they really either sort it out properly, or compensate?

(I haven't seen what the deeds actually say - I'll try and do so.)