Not accepting an EULA on a game for xbox.

Mickey666

Lomast said:

Mickey666 said:

MattMattMattUK said:

I do not think you would be entitled to a refund, but I can not cite a source on that. I am basing it on the fact that you have purchased the goods, opened the goods, the effectively decide that you wish to change your mind after the fact. 

Fair enough.  I'm of the opposite view, but also cannot cite a source so I could well be wrong.

I'm basing my view on a basic tenet of consumer law (UK at least) that the purchaser should have the right to fully examine a product before deciding to buy.  The Distance Selling regulations were specifically introduced to protect this 'right of full examination' when goods were purchased by mail-order or online, where the customer has had no chance to properly examine the goods and there is given the right to an unconditional return.  'Unconditional' meaning just that - no justification is necessary.  Return the product, get a full refund.

Where in consumer law does it state that a consumer has the right to fully examine a product before purchase?

You know what I mean.   There are effective rights and legally enshrined rights.
There is an 'effective right' to examine a product before purchase because the law grants the legal right to return unseen goods for any reason.   

Mickey666

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Mickey666 said:

MattMattMattUK said:

I do not think you would be entitled to a refund, but I can not cite a source on that. I am basing it on the fact that you have purchased the goods, opened the goods, the effectively decide that you wish to change your mind after the fact. 

I'm basing my view on a basic tenet of consumer law (UK at least) that the purchaser should have the right to fully examine a product before deciding to buy.  The Distance Selling regulations were specifically introduced to protect this 'right of full examination' when goods were purchased by mail-order or online, where the customer has had no chance to properly examine the goods and there is given the right to an unconditional return.  'Unconditional' meaning just that - no justification is necessary.  Return the product, get a full refund.

So, based on that principle, it is not possible to know for certain there is a EULA (or some other) compulsory agreement within purchased software until the packaging is physically opened and the software is installed.  Even a running demo of the software in a shop would not reveal the presences of a EULA agreement since they usually only appear during installation.

 The Distance Selling Regulations were superseded by The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013

The limits regarding to the right to cancel computer software are quoted above. 

So, as I suggested in my post that you selectively quoted, software is treated as an exceptional case compared to most other consumer goods.  Any idea if that's because consumers only by a licence to USE the product rather than OWN it?

Jenni_D

AIIU the right is to examine goods (bought online) in the same manner as one would be able to in a store. In a store software items are usually sealed, so all you can examine is the box. Online purchased software would also typically be sealed so examination would be the same - break the seal and the goods can't be returned, for change of mind anyway.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Mickey666 said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Mickey666 said:

MattMattMattUK said:

I do not think you would be entitled to a refund, but I can not cite a source on that. I am basing it on the fact that you have purchased the goods, opened the goods, the effectively decide that you wish to change your mind after the fact. 

I'm basing my view on a basic tenet of consumer law (UK at least) that the purchaser should have the right to fully examine a product before deciding to buy.  The Distance Selling regulations were specifically introduced to protect this 'right of full examination' when goods were purchased by mail-order or online, where the customer has had no chance to properly examine the goods and there is given the right to an unconditional return.  'Unconditional' meaning just that - no justification is necessary.  Return the product, get a full refund.

So, based on that principle, it is not possible to know for certain there is a EULA (or some other) compulsory agreement within purchased software until the packaging is physically opened and the software is installed.  Even a running demo of the software in a shop would not reveal the presences of a EULA agreement since they usually only appear during installation.

 The Distance Selling Regulations were superseded by The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013

The limits regarding to the right to cancel computer software are quoted above. 

So, as I suggested in my post that you selectively quoted, software is treated as an exceptional case compared to most other consumer goods.  Any idea if that's because consumers only by a licence to USE the product rather than OWN it?

I don't know why they are excluded (no selective quoting, the part of the post I was replying to was all that needed to be quoted).

I can only hazard a guess it's due to the ability to copy audio, video recordings or software. 

The legislation is drawn from the EU directive:

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/dir/2011/83/oj

which states the same exclusion almost word for word:

the supply of sealed audio or sealed video recordings or sealed computer software which were unsealed after delivery;

Mickey666

Yes, I'd also guess it's an anti-copying thing. 
I can't remember the last time I bought some software, but perhaps the packaging has (or could have) reference to the requirement to accept a EULA agreement before the software can be used?  Perhaps with a QR code linked to further information?  At least that would mean the customer is fully informed before purchase.

neilmcl

Mickey666 said:

MattMattMattUK said:

I do not think you would be entitled to a refund, but I can not cite a source on that. I am basing it on the fact that you have purchased the goods, opened the goods, the effectively decide that you wish to change your mind after the fact. 

Fair enough.  I'm of the opposite view, but also cannot cite a source so I could well be wrong.

I'm basing my view on a basic tenet of consumer law (UK at least) that the purchaser should have the right to fully examine a product before deciding to buy.  The Distance Selling regulations were specifically introduced to protect this 'right of full examination' when goods were purchased by mail-order or online, where the customer has had no chance to properly examine the goods and there is given the right to an unconditional return.  'Unconditional' meaning just that - no justification is necessary.  Return the product, get a full refund.

So, based on that principle, it is not possible to know for certain there is a EULA (or some other) compulsory agreement within purchased software until the packaging is physically opened and the software is installed.  Even a running demo of the software in a shop would not reveal the presences of a EULA agreement since they usually only appear during installation.

@powerful_Rogue's point about searching for the EULA agreement online prior to purchase is, I think, somewhat irrelevant because it assumes that the customer already knows or suspects there is such an agreement embedded in the software.  It hardly seems in the spirit of consumer protection to require the consumer to have such detailed and expert knowledge of a product before purchasing, otherwise what would be the point of the Distance Selling legislation?

Anyway, that's my reasoning for refunding software under such circumstances.  I don't know if it has any legal backing but if it doesn't then it would seem to an exception to the general principles of consumer protection. 
Perhaps this is because software is rarely sold outright and consumers actually are only buying a 'licence to use' the software?  I don't know the detailed legalities.

"Fully examining" doesn't mean being able to play the game and exclusions to such content as games as always been in place in the distance selling laws. And besides what's your definition of "fully examining", the regulations only allow for "what is necessary to establish the nature, characteristics and functioning of the goods", you don't need to be able to open and play a game to be able to do this.

Ectophile

It may be one of those cases where nobody really knows until it reaches a high court, and a judge decides.  Until then, it's only opinion.

liggerz87

Also if you don't accept the eula they software company won't allow you to play the game sorry not much help 

neilmcl

liggerz87 said:

Also if you don't accept the eula they software company won't allow you to play the game sorry not much help 

I think that was pretty obvious, and the whole point of the thread.