HMRC's obligations to provide proof of communication?

Jareth442

Hi. I wanted to ask if the HMRC is obligated to provide copies of any communications/letters they claim to have issued saying I was required to file a self- assessment or any penalties I subsequently received as a result of not receiving such communications? I am getting hit with retro-active not filed, self-assessment fees for years I was a PAYE employee. I can see on my online gov gateway/hmrc portal that notifications were added to my account several years after the years in question, but I only recently gained access to my online account with HMRC as I was living abroad for 3 years (and these notifications are very top line with no address or specific info on them). My address changed 2 times in the years leading up to my move abroad and every time, my employer was updated, and my address for my PAYE related documents from HMRC would arrive to the correct address but never anything to do with self-assessment. So, back to my initial question, if I request copies of the original letters that were allegedly sent, do they have to provide them, and if they cannot, does this help my case?

unholyangel

Since you say the notifications were online, I suspect you signed up to online notifications and wouldn't have been sent any in the post. 

What do you mean your PAYE related documents from hmrc? The only PAYE document HMRC would send you (as someone in self assessment) would be a tax code notice. If you weren't self assessed then they'd also send either a p800 or pa302. 

If you're referring to a p60 then it was your employer who sent that

p00hsticks

Jareth442 said:

. My address changed 2 times in the years leading up to my move abroad and every time, my employer was updated,

You may have updated your employer, but did you update HMRC ?

Jareth442

p00hsticks said:

Jareth442 said:

. My address changed 2 times in the years leading up to my move abroad and every time, my employer was updated,

You may have updated your employer, but did you update HMRC ?

Hi. Thanks for your reply. They were corresponding with me for other matters (ie tax summaries etc for paye, I even received a tax refund one year too) at the correct address. My employers would issue the p60s etc which I'm reading is considered adequate proof of an employer informing hmrc. Ultimately, I'm trying to find out if they have an obligation to prove they contacted me via post or wherever (regardless of whether or not I'm correct). 

Jareth442

unholyangel said:

Since you say the notifications were online, I suspect you signed up to online notifications and wouldn't have been sent any in the post. 

What do you mean your PAYE related documents from hmrc? The only PAYE document HMRC would send you (as someone in self assessment) would be a tax code notice. If you weren't self assessed then they'd also send either a p800 or pa302. 

If you're referring to a p60 then it was your employer who sent that

Hi. Thanks for the reply. I did not activate the online system until 2020. I couldn't verify my identity while abroad as I had no address to have the pin letter sent. When I went online the first time I had notifications from 2018 onwards (they are asking me for penalties prior to 2016 for tax years as early as 2012) I also never switched my communication to online only. Which I'm fairly certain you need to authorise. I have subsequently received other communications from the at my current address as well. Any notifications in the online account (from 2018 onwards) are very general and provide minimal information, not the level of information they would put in a postal letter. I've received things throughout the years for paye related matters from hmrc. Like tax overpayment cheques and annual summaries. Ultimately, I'm just looking to find out if they are obligated to prove they attempted communication... Regardless of whether or not I'm right or wrong, or i had an online account or not, do they need to tell me how they tried to communicate with me and where and when? No worries if you're not sure. Thanks in advance. 

MattMattMattUK

If you are hoping to get out of the fines and charges then the notices are irrelevant, if you should have filed then the HMRC communication is just a reminder, the onus is on you to pay what you owe.

As you say you were PAYE what is the reason HMRC think you should have filed?

Dazed_and_C0nfused

Millions of people who are on PAYE have to file Self Assessment returns, there are a myriad of reasons why this might be the case.

sheramber

What sort of proof are you looking for?
If the correspondence is routine forms. reminders then there will be no copies. The person working the case would click a button to issue the required item and it would be printed and despatched automatically.
The issue would be noted on your records.