Total Car Parks Dutton Street Parking Charge

Fruitcake

abbie_1998 said:

Fruitcake said:

The third post of the NEWBIES provides you with a series of template appeal points for you to obtain the MSE 100% discount. Nobody here is interested in the 14 day mugs discount.

Where did the alleged event occur (which Nation, type of car park such as hospital, retail outlet, residential, railway station etcetera)?

You definitely need to get pics of the site and signage for your appeals, especially if the signs have changed recently or the scammers have taken over from the council since your first ticket.

This occurred in England in a private car park (literally a crappy piece of gravel land that has no upkeep. You wouldn't park a car there that was worth more £1000 I'd say). The car park was always private, never council owned. The first £30 charge I got was from the same company. 

I'll be heading down to get pictures of the signs today

Was this crappy car park for a hospital, retail outlet, residential, railway station etcetera? Where did this occur? The site may have cropped up here before. That's why we ask these questions.

Redx

abbie_1998 said:

Redx said:

abbie_1998 said:

Redx said:

The Beavis case of 2015 killed off the argument against £100 , plus it's been standard for a decade , so no chance arguing about the difference

None of the parking charges are fines , they are invoices for a breach of the parking rules the word fine should not be used

The relevant CoP gives you the trade body rules in place on the day

The newbies FAQ sticky thread near the top of the forum explains almost everything you need to know and is up to date

Total car parks are BPA AOS members so should offer Popla codes for unsuccessful appeals , be it as keeper of as driver

I'll definitely read the newbies faq at some point (v busy right now!) 
I've been offered a POPLA code for the unsuccessful appeal but I don't know whether I should go for it because I'll lose out on the cheaper option of £60 if I do and fail

All choices that you need to make , based on the facts of the case , we can only point you at those facts , Be yes you are correct that the mugs discount will disappear

A driver based popla appeal is made on poor and inadequate signage , the BPA CoP , no landowner authority etc ( no POFA to assist admitted drivers )

Seems to me that you have not tried plan A , only plan B , so far

If you rush this instead of reading the newbies FAQ sticky thread , it's no wonder that you are confused and floundering about in the dark regarding the not a genuine pre estimate of loss , the difference between the daily charge and the default daily tariff , or not knowing about the 6 year old Beavis case at the Supreme court either

Learn the basics and decide on a plan

I'll definitely be reading it then. This is all very new to me as I'm usually very good with paying for parking so I'm sorry if I sound really dumb

You are not dumb , you are a newbie , hence why we ask people to read that thread by coupon mad first , to get up to speed

I do not believe you could pass a driving test after your first driving lesson , you even had to study the highway code too , these days it's a theory test before any practical test

If you had read that Newbies FAQ sticky thread first , you would not have blabbed about who was driving 😁😁

abbie_1998

Fruitcake said:

abbie_1998 said:

Fruitcake said:

The third post of the NEWBIES provides you with a series of template appeal points for you to obtain the MSE 100% discount. Nobody here is interested in the 14 day mugs discount.

Where did the alleged event occur (which Nation, type of car park such as hospital, retail outlet, residential, railway station etcetera)?

You definitely need to get pics of the site and signage for your appeals, especially if the signs have changed recently or the scammers have taken over from the council since your first ticket.

This occurred in England in a private car park (literally a crappy piece of gravel land that has no upkeep. You wouldn't park a car there that was worth more £1000 I'd say). The car park was always private, never council owned. The first £30 charge I got was from the same company. 

I'll be heading down to get pictures of the signs today

Was this crappy car park for a hospital, retail outlet, residential, railway station etcetera? Where did this occur? The site may have cropped up here before. That's why we ask these questions.

Car park wasn't for anything specific, it was just a piece of land on the outskirts of Manchester city centre that offered cheap parking as opposed to paying ridiculous prices inner city. It's called Total Car Parks LTD on Dutton Street (or Boddington's, it's got two names according the PCN I got).
Honestly, I know I'm in the wrong and it's likely I'll have to pay, technically it was entirely my problem that the website wasn't working just for me and there were other methods of payment available (although I wasn't aware of the texting option and believed the cash machine option wasn't in use due to a cage over it) and I still chose to park there, despite this. I was just wondering whether there was a chance I could offer to pay a smaller amount instead as I really can't afford it

Redx

They are very unlikely to grant a smaller amount , I have never seen that in over 8 years of coming here !!

It's an invoice with a figure on it , if people could negotiate to pay less then it would happen millions of times a year !! They would be swamped with begging letters offering less

abbie_1998

Redx said:

They are very unlikely to grant a smaller amount , I have never seen that in over 8 years of coming here !!

It's an invoice with a figure on it , if people could negotiate to pay less then it would happen millions of times a year !! They would be swamped with begging letters offering less

That's fair enough I guess. I do have another question on some research I've been doing (fully understand if this is annoying and you don't want to respond).
Essentially the BPA (with whom Total Car Parks LTD are registered) list that TCP aren't authorised for debt recovery (on this website https://www.britishparking.co.uk/bpa-approved-operators ) but in their parking ticket letters they state "failure to pay the full amount of this notice within 28 days may result in the proceeding of debt recovery action and/or issuing court proceedings against you" 
In the email they sent regarding my declined appeal they state "3. If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via our debt recovery procedures and may proceed with Court action against you."

My question is, is this legal? If the BPA haven't authorised them to be able to collect debt, are they still allowed to say they will go through this process even if they're not? Can I use this in my appeal?

KeithP

I don't think it is a question of the BPA 'authorising' TCP to carry out debt recovery.
I think it is simply a case of TCP telling the BPA that they don't carry out debt recovery, instead they'll subcontract debt recovery to another company.
There are only twelve firms on that list that have 'yes' in the Debt Recovery column.

You can be assured that they all will be seeking debt recovery in one way or another.

Redx

Yes they can employ a sub contractor such as dcb ltd or DRPL , Or just chase up the alleged debt themselves , many do both , but we tend to see a few debt collectors being given the job on no win , no fee , typically the usual suspects , so yes it's legal

It is of no use in any appeal , it's an unregulated industry following wild west practices , maybe in 12 months time we will see lawful changes due to the Parking Bill 2019 and a new mandatory Mhclg CoP from Robert Jenrick MP

abbie_1998

Thank you, everyone! I have another question lol
Their signage for the £100 fine is fairly small, I'd argue you couldn't read it from the front of the car park (although the signs are posted throughout, even smaller this time though). Could I argue that their signs are unclear and complicated? Or would that be laughed out the room? 
(This is the first sign that mentions a fine)

(This is the sign from close up)

(This is a screenshot from Google Maps regarding other signs. You can see them posted but they're very small, I'm not sure if they discuss the £100 fine at all)


Also, the big photo of the sign states you can pay by mobile/text and states "+10p for optional SMS" but my phone only has the option of SMS texts and, therefore, the extra 10p charge isn't optional. I know it's only 10p but could I argue that this sign can be considered misleading and factually incorrect?

Redx

I cannot see the 4 letter legal word FINE on that sign at all , or on any sign , but not surprising since parking companies are legally barred from using that word , or penalty ! ( Download and read the BPA CoP version 8 , which states this and states they are not to imply they are an official authority )

You can make the signage arguments , then it's up to Popla or a judge in court to rule on it , one way or the other , but if you have been using the car park previously without incident , it's harder to argue about the terms and conditions etc

The £100 is in white on a black background in fairly large characters , on the left , with the t & c next to it saying £100 parking ticket charge

Ps , it's not a fine , it's actually an invoice

Coupon-mad

That is a very colour-mixed and dense text, cluttered sign.  A horrible thing to read and work out.  

Also, the big photo of the sign states you can pay by mobile/text and states "+10p for optional SMS" but my phone only has the option of SMS texts and, therefore, the extra 10p charge isn't optional. I know it's only 10p but could I argue that this sign can be considered misleading and factually incorrect?

And illegal I think.  I don't think traders can add sums for payment methods any more.