Loss of revenue

grund1g

I am the director of a small limited company. Throughout this pandemic my company has lost almost £1000.00 per month in turnover. Can I claim for this lost revenue?

Pennywise

Right from last March (2020) there have been various support schemes, grants, loans, etc available to businesses.  If you had qualified for any of those schemes, you could have applied for them.  Some of them have now closed.  It's a little late in the day to start thinking about claiming after over a year.  Have a look at the gov.uk website to see what schemes are still in place and see if you qualify for any.  https://www.gov.uk/coronavirus/business-support
However, none cover lost revenue.  Some covered your expenses, and of course, there were loans.  Other that that, you could have claimed universal credit had your personal income been low enough to qualify.

grund1g

Thanks for your reply. I've had a look at the government's website and there's nothing for help in my situation. Its just wrong when there are people out there milking these grants for every penny they can get.

MattMattMattUK

grund1g said:

Thanks for your reply. I've had a look at the government's website and there's nothing for help in my situation. Its just wrong when there are people out there milking these grants for every penny they can get.

Who is exactly "milking these grants"? 
Note I say that as a limited company owner where revenue was down £430k over the last fourteen months due to Covid related disruption. I have received almost nothing from the government, but that is life. 

JJC1956

If you pay Commercial Rent and Business Rates you might be entitled to LRSG (Local Restrictions Support Grants) or ARG (Additional Restrictions Grants) if you pay commercial rent but no business rates, you need to check your local council website, you need to be quick as a lot of the closing dates have already gone. 

Pennywise

MattMattMattUK said:

grund1g said:

Thanks for your reply. I've had a look at the government's website and there's nothing for help in my situation. Its just wrong when there are people out there milking these grants for every penny they can get.

Who is exactly "milking these grants"? 
Note I say that as a limited company owner where revenue was down £430k over the last fourteen months due to Covid related disruption. I have received almost nothing from the government, but that is life. 

Plenty of people have done well out of the grants.  I've done several sets of sole trader accounts (electrician, kitchen fitter, garage mechanic, potter, pie shop, guest houses, etc) over the past couple of weeks.  They all claimed the £10k business rates grant, SEISS, local authority ARG grants, etc., typically totalling around £25k.  Nearly all ended up better off than a "normal" year as the total grants exceeded the losses due to covid.  All claims are legitimate and they qualified for each grant as claimed according to the rules/criteria applying to each grant.  The electrician and kitchen fitter both bought new vans to avoid paying higher rate tax and having to repay child benefit, the others all bought new equipment, etc. to get their tax bills lower.
Then, I've also done some other sets of accounts, including a driving instructor, rent a chair hairdresser, dog walker, who've not been eligible for any of the grants and have seen their incomes fall by up to 75%.  Their only choice was universal credit and most couldn't claim because of their household income, i.e. spouse earning more than the limit.  
The unfairness and scatter gun approach of the grants and support schemes is crazy and I hope that it's reviewed in the forthcoming public enquiry.

MattMattMattUK

Pennywise said:

MattMattMattUK said:

grund1g said:

Thanks for your reply. I've had a look at the government's website and there's nothing for help in my situation. Its just wrong when there are people out there milking these grants for every penny they can get.

Who is exactly "milking these grants"? 
Note I say that as a limited company owner where revenue was down £430k over the last fourteen months due to Covid related disruption. I have received almost nothing from the government, but that is life. 

Plenty of people have done well out of the grants.  I've done several sets of sole trader accounts (electrician, kitchen fitter, garage mechanic, potter, pie shop, guest houses, etc) over the past couple of weeks.  They all claimed the £10k business rates grant, SEISS, local authority ARG grants, etc., typically totalling around £25k.  Nearly all ended up better off than a "normal" year as the total grants exceeded the losses due to covid.  All claims are legitimate and they qualified for each grant as claimed according to the rules/criteria applying to each grant.  The electrician and kitchen fitter both bought new vans to avoid paying higher rate tax and having to repay child benefit, the others all bought new equipment, etc. to get their tax bills lower.
Then, I've also done some other sets of accounts, including a driving instructor, rent a chair hairdresser, dog walker, who've not been eligible for any of the grants and have seen their incomes fall by up to 75%.  Their only choice was universal credit and most couldn't claim because of their household income, i.e. spouse earning more than the limit.  
The unfairness and scatter gun approach of the grants and support schemes is crazy and I hope that it's reviewed in the forthcoming public enquiry.

I do not deny that some people appear to have done better than they would have otherwise due to the grants and that others have received little to nothing. I am in the latter, but that does not mean that I would describe those claiming grants that they are eligible for as "milking these grants"

Personally I think that the grants were a bit of a blunt instrument, implemented quickly and designed to help the majority, with perfection sacrificed for expediency. They were always going to miss people and it would have been naïve for people to think that everyone would be helped to the level they felt adequate. Would I have implemented things differently? Of course, I would if it was down to me, but even the best plan would have still missed people due to the inherent lack of adequate data. I am unsure how the SME owner dividend situation could have been resolved adequately, it was an issue that impacted me (my PAYE salary is tiny, the vast majority of my income comes from dividend of the company I am owner/operator of), but my attitude was that life is unfair, so time to knuckle down and get on with things, whinging about one of the so called excluded would have got me nowhere, so I diversified my business, approached different sectors and made things work. My income in the 20/21 tax year was down 85% on 19/20, stuff happens, I saved the business, the business year 2021 looks like it will be my best ever, up 30% on 2019. Adversity leads to change and adaption, which ultimately means those who do succeed, that is also life. Rightly, or wrongly, we all fail or succeed on our own merits. 

Grumpy_chap

grund1g said:

I am the director of a small limited company. Throughout this pandemic my company has lost almost £1000.00 per month in turnover. Can I claim for this lost revenue?

What type of business do you operate?

What have you claimed so far?  There have been many well-publicised support schemes and, as other said, to only realise that turnover has been impacted 18-months in is rather slow to catch on.

You say your turnover reduced by £1k/month.  How significant is that?  I do not ask in facetious manner, but as a genuine question.  Costs may have reduced also if delivering less output.  Also, for some, a £1k drop in monthly turnover is nearly everything whereas for others the £1k/month drop is less significant, say if normal turnover was £20k/month

JJC1956

Pennywise said:

MattMattMattUK said:

grund1g said:

Thanks for your reply. I've had a look at the government's website and there's nothing for help in my situation. Its just wrong when there are people out there milking these grants for every penny they can get.

Who is exactly "milking these grants"? 
Note I say that as a limited company owner where revenue was down £430k over the last fourteen months due to Covid related disruption. I have received almost nothing from the government, but that is life. 

Plenty of people have done well out of the grants.  I've done several sets of sole trader accounts (electrician, kitchen fitter, garage mechanic, potter, pie shop, guest houses, etc) over the past couple of weeks.  They all claimed the £10k business rates grant, SEISS, local authority ARG grants, etc., typically totalling around £25k.  Nearly all ended up better off than a "normal" year as the total grants exceeded the losses due to covid.  All claims are legitimate and they qualified for each grant as claimed according to the rules/criteria applying to each grant.  The electrician and kitchen fitter both bought new vans to avoid paying higher rate tax and having to repay child benefit, the others all bought new equipment, etc. to get their tax bills lower.
Then, I've also done some other sets of accounts, including a driving instructor, rent a chair hairdresser, dog walker, who've not been eligible for any of the grants and have seen their incomes fall by up to 75%.  Their only choice was universal credit and most couldn't claim because of their household income, i.e. spouse earning more than the limit.  
The unfairness and scatter gun approach of the grants and support schemes is crazy and I hope that it's reviewed in the forthcoming public enquiry.

So how would you have dealt with the situation, and distributed funding to suit everyone? 

grund1g

Grumpy_chap said:

grund1g said:

I am the director of a small limited company. Throughout this pandemic my company has lost almost £1000.00 per month in turnover. Can I claim for this lost revenue?

What type of business do you operate?

What have you claimed so far?  There have been many well-publicised support schemes and, as other said, to only realise that turnover has been impacted 18-months in is rather slow to catch on.

You say your turnover reduced by £1k/month.  How significant is that?  I do not ask in facetious manner, but as a genuine question.  Costs may have reduced also if delivering less output.  Also, for some, a £1k drop in monthly turnover is nearly everything whereas for others the £1k/month drop is less significant, say if normal turnover was £20k/month

When your turnover is only £25 k a year i would say that a £12k drop is quite significant. Still that's life you just have to get on with it.

gizmo111

MattMattMattUK said:

Pennywise said:

MattMattMattUK said:

grund1g said:

Thanks for your reply. I've had a look at the government's website and there's nothing for help in my situation. Its just wrong when there are people out there milking these grants for every penny they can get.

Who is exactly "milking these grants"? 
Note I say that as a limited company owner where revenue was down £430k over the last fourteen months due to Covid related disruption. I have received almost nothing from the government, but that is life. 

Plenty of people have done well out of the grants.  I've done several sets of sole trader accounts (electrician, kitchen fitter, garage mechanic, potter, pie shop, guest houses, etc) over the past couple of weeks.  They all claimed the £10k business rates grant, SEISS, local authority ARG grants, etc., typically totalling around £25k.  Nearly all ended up better off than a "normal" year as the total grants exceeded the losses due to covid.  All claims are legitimate and they qualified for each grant as claimed according to the rules/criteria applying to each grant.  The electrician and kitchen fitter both bought new vans to avoid paying higher rate tax and having to repay child benefit, the others all bought new equipment, etc. to get their tax bills lower.
Then, I've also done some other sets of accounts, including a driving instructor, rent a chair hairdresser, dog walker, who've not been eligible for any of the grants and have seen their incomes fall by up to 75%.  Their only choice was universal credit and most couldn't claim because of their household income, i.e. spouse earning more than the limit.  
The unfairness and scatter gun approach of the grants and support schemes is crazy and I hope that it's reviewed in the forthcoming public enquiry.

I do not deny that some people appear to have done better than they would have otherwise due to the grants and that others have received little to nothing. I am in the latter, but that does not mean that I would describe those claiming grants that they are eligible for as "milking these grants"

Personally I think that the grants were a bit of a blunt instrument, implemented quickly and designed to help the majority, with perfection sacrificed for expediency. They were always going to miss people and it would have been naïve for people to think that everyone would be helped to the level they felt adequate. Would I have implemented things differently? Of course, I would if it was down to me, but even the best plan would have still missed people due to the inherent lack of adequate data. I am unsure how the SME owner dividend situation could have been resolved adequately, it was an issue that impacted me (my PAYE salary is tiny, the vast majority of my income comes from dividend of the company I am owner/operator of), but my attitude was that life is unfair, so time to knuckle down and get on with things, whinging about one of the so called excluded would have got me nowhere, so I diversified my business, approached different sectors and made things work. My income in the 20/21 tax year was down 85% on 19/20, stuff happens, I saved the business, the business year 2021 looks like it will be my best ever, up 30% on 2019. Adversity leads to change and adaption, which ultimately means those who do succeed, that is also life. Rightly, or wrongly, we all fail or succeed on our own merits. 

I think it has been really interesting and great to see how businesses have been able to adapt through the pandemic and for the future.  I had the grants which helped keep me trading and at the same time gave me the breathing space to be able to diversify into an area which I had always thought would be too risky, I took a BBL to expand the business and I have found that the work has just been pouring in through the door and as a result I have been able to help others to maintain a good income as well.  I was particularly impressed by a small business owner that I had dealings with that could have gone under, but used his creativity, grants and passion to get his staff to support in the community early morning and earn in the afternoon, no furlough for any of them, and strong new contracts going forward.  On the other hand I know of people who have been self employed, under declared their income for years and are still angry that the support they got was based on their tax returns.
 I think for a lot of businesses the pandemic has been a time of reflection and change , but for others who have genuinely fallen through the rules through no fault of their own it has been heartbreaking, even those that have been furloughed losing 20% of their income if they were budgeting on a tight income pre pandemic has been devasting for them. 
But I don't know anyone who has 'milked' the grants or support available and it has been well publicized what can be claimed for a year or more now.