Cheapest gas standing charge?

Verdigris

The distribution cost is known. That's why it varies by area. Retail suppliers choose whether to charge more or less than the cost to them. It is a commercial decision.

matelodave

rebel_2 said:

Tallerdave said:

rebel_2 said:

To be honest, you need to be carefully here. The Standing Charge is a bit of a 'dilemma' (not a good thing), it's whatever the energy companies want it to be. For example, some will have it at 20p per day, but that will reflect in the unit charge in the Tariff. Some will have it at 12p per day, but that will reflect in the unit charge in the Tariff. It's all a bit 'ridiculous'.    

As @JJ_Egan says, unit cost is irrelevant for someone with a broken boiler using no gas.

It's not 'ridiculous', it's a market catering for a range of user profiles. I once paid a gas standing charge of over 40p a day because it gave access to an eye-wateringly low unit rate. But that was only sensible due to high consumption, over 50,000kWh a year.

It irritates me when the regulator meddles with the market - allegedly making it simpler for people who are too lazy to shop around anyway.

It is 'ridiculous' because the 'standing charge' 'added to most gas and electricity bills'. It's a fixed daily amount that you have to pay, no matter how much energy you use. A standing charge covers the cost of supplying your property with gas and electricity, basically the i.e. infrastructure etc.
All the suppliers will have a similar cost, but there is a huge difference in what is charged as a 'standing charge' in tariffs. Do we actually know what it costs to maintain the i.e. infrastructure etc?
It's another case of the energy companies being 'disingenuous'. 

how do you think you should pay for the pipes, pylons, cable and other stuff that get leccy from the power station to your house. You have to pay a fixed charge, standing charge, line rental etc for water, sewerage, phone or broadband. so why get upset about doing it for gas or leccy.

Should it be by distance, the number of poles or pylons or manholes between you and the power station. How about which end of the street you live, add a penny per house or ten houses.

The amount of energy you consume does not affect the amount of infrastructure it takes to get it to your house so the energy companies try to average it out so for some people who are low users it makes up a bigger proportion of their bill than higher users.
I'm like Tallerdave, I want a low cost per kwh as I use far more than 3500kwh of leccy a year.  I dont use gas but if you are using the annual average of around 12,000kwh a year then most people would be better off getting the lowest cost per kwh than getting hung up about the standing charge.

However in the whole great scheme of things 10p/day = £36.50 a year or roughly equivalent to 1p/kwh for an average 3500kwh a year for leccy or 0.3p/kwh for 12,000kwh of gas so it's really not worth getting all riled up about.

niktheguru

rebel_2 said:

Tallerdave said:

Is line rental for a landline or mobile also "ridiculous"? 

A landline charge in itself isn't 'ridiculous', but what's charged for it is. BT has a monopoly on the infrastructure because it own's pretty much all of it because of past telecom 'legacy's'. There was at one time one 'telecoms' company.
You've missed the point, the 'standing charge' is ridiculous because 'nobody' actually knows what the infrastructure costs because of the variation attributed to the 'standing charge' by suppliers. 
 

If its any help, this is what Octopus says my 15p a day standing charge goes towards:
Metering 6.37p
smart meter obligation 1p
admin, customer service and margin 7p
VAT 0.72p

bristolleedsfan

niktheguru said:

rebel_2 said:

Tallerdave said:

Is line rental for a landline or mobile also "ridiculous"? 

A landline charge in itself isn't 'ridiculous', but what's charged for it is. BT has a monopoly on the infrastructure because it own's pretty much all of it because of past telecom 'legacy's'. There was at one time one 'telecoms' company.
You've missed the point, the 'standing charge' is ridiculous because 'nobody' actually knows what the infrastructure costs because of the variation attributed to the 'standing charge' by suppliers. 
 

If its any help, this is what Octopus says my 15p a day standing charge goes towards:
Metering 6.37p
smart meter obligation 1p
admin, customer service and margin 7p
VAT 0.72p

Appreciating this thread is about gas standing charge, just out of interest how does Octopus break down its 25p Octopus Go standing charge where regional variations dont apply

niktheguru

Appreciating this thread is about gas standing charge, just out of interest how does Octopus break down its 25p Octopus Go standing charge where regional variations dont apply

Well, the 18p tracker standing charge is broken down as
Metering 4.62p
Local distribution 4.61p
smart meter obligation 1.32p
admin, customer service and margin 7p
VAT 0.87p

I would hazard a guess that the additional 7p for the go standing charge just gets added to "margin"

rebel_2

Verdigris said:

The distribution cost is known. That's why it varies by area. Retail suppliers choose whether to charge more or less than the cost to them. It is a commercial decision.

It's not really a 'commercial decision', I'd like to know exactly what I'm paying for, I'd expect them to be upfront. I'd have to track back, maybe Internet Archive, but the 'standing charge' was 4p / 5p. There isn't a clear understanding of the cost for the consumer.  

rebel_2

matelodave said:

rebel_2 said:

Tallerdave said:

rebel_2 said:

To be honest, you need to be carefully here. The Standing Charge is a bit of a 'dilemma' (not a good thing), it's whatever the energy companies want it to be. For example, some will have it at 20p per day, but that will reflect in the unit charge in the Tariff. Some will have it at 12p per day, but that will reflect in the unit charge in the Tariff. It's all a bit 'ridiculous'.    

As @JJ_Egan says, unit cost is irrelevant for someone with a broken boiler using no gas.

It's not 'ridiculous', it's a market catering for a range of user profiles. I once paid a gas standing charge of over 40p a day because it gave access to an eye-wateringly low unit rate. But that was only sensible due to high consumption, over 50,000kWh a year.

It irritates me when the regulator meddles with the market - allegedly making it simpler for people who are too lazy to shop around anyway.

It is 'ridiculous' because the 'standing charge' 'added to most gas and electricity bills'. It's a fixed daily amount that you have to pay, no matter how much energy you use. A standing charge covers the cost of supplying your property with gas and electricity, basically the i.e. infrastructure etc.
All the suppliers will have a similar cost, but there is a huge difference in what is charged as a 'standing charge' in tariffs. Do we actually know what it costs to maintain the i.e. infrastructure etc?
It's another case of the energy companies being 'disingenuous'. 

how do you think you should pay for the pipes, pylons, cable and other stuff that get leccy from the power station to your house. You have to pay a fixed charge, standing charge, line rental etc for water, sewerage, phone or broadband. so why get upset about doing it for gas or leccy.

Should it be by distance, the number of poles or pylons or manholes between you and the power station. How about which end of the street you live, add a penny per house or ten houses.

The amount of energy you consume does not affect the amount of infrastructure it takes to get it to your house so the energy companies try to average it out so for some people who are low users it makes up a bigger proportion of their bill than higher users.
I'm like Tallerdave, I want a low cost per kwh as I use far more than 3500kwh of leccy a year.  I dont use gas but if you are using the annual average of around 12,000kwh a year then most people would be better off getting the lowest cost per kwh than getting hung up about the standing charge.

However in the whole great scheme of things 10p/day = £36.50 a year or roughly equivalent to 1p/kwh for an average 3500kwh a year for leccy or 0.3p/kwh for 12,000kwh of gas so it's really not worth getting all riled up about.

I'd love to 'explore' your post, but you've missed the point too. It's not a question of getting 'riled up'. 

niktheguru

rebel_2 said:

Verdigris said:

The distribution cost is known. That's why it varies by area. Retail suppliers choose whether to charge more or less than the cost to them. It is a commercial decision.

It's not really a 'commercial decision', I'd like to know exactly what I'm paying for, I'd expect them to be upfront. I'd have to track back, maybe Internet Archive, but the 'standing charge' was 4p / 5p. There isn't a clear understanding of the cost for the consumer.  

It is a commercial decision though isn't it. There is no need/obligation for them to be upfront about what makes up the standing charge, just like there is no breakdown of what your mobile phone monthly payment  exactly covers, or your ISP monthly charge for your internet.
Its very easy, a percentage of the standing charge is for metering obligation, some for contibution towards infrastructure and some will be for your providers running costs and  their profit margin. The companies vary the standing charge depending on tariff and often use it as a bargaining chip for reducing or increasing the unit rate. Otherwise the standing charge would be a fixed price across the board.

All we need to know is there are multiple suppliers competing with different unit rates and standing charges, you goes where you likes.

Cardew

The OP was only enquiring who had the lowest Gas Daily Standing Charge(DSC), not challenging the justification for such a charge.

There have always been costs to supply customers with gas/electric, yet for many years there were firms like Ebico who did not have a DSC. Even when legislation mandated a DSC Ebico charged 0.00pence.

I have an annex that is rarely used and was with Ebico until they folded just over a year ago*. - via a brief flirtation with Robin Hood energy. Last June I switched the annex supply to Eon on a 12 month contract and pay just over 8p DSC each for gas and electricity. Looking at all the alternatives available my future DSC charges will more than double.

Some firms with the better tariffs will not allow a gas only supply.

There was a time when the supply was with BG who offered a generous fixed sum as a 'discount' for Dual Fuel and a further fixed sum for paying by Direct Debit. These sums were credited to my account and exceeded the amount spent on gas and electricity; so my credit  balance kept increasing even after they reduced the Direct Debit to zero. I then had a phone call from BG who stated that they were not allowed to have a DD of £0.00 so would I mind if it increased to £1.00!!

* I have just had an email from Ebico announcing to former customers.

'I am really pleased to let you know that Ebico is back in the home energy market with Ebico Living. With Ebico Living, we will continue to bring you competitive home energy and be able to do more to help you manage your energy use, helping bring affordable energy to everyone. Energy will be delivered by our new supply partner, Octopus Energy, the Which? recommended energy supplier for the past four years.'

  Sadly they are not competitive for myself.

niktheguru

Cardew said:

The OP was only enquiring who had the lowest Gas Daily Standing Charge(DSC), not challenging the justification for such a charge.

There have always been costs to supply customers with gas/electric, yet for many years there were firms like Ebico who did not have a DSC. Even when legislation mandated a DSC Ebico charged 0.00pence.

I have an annex that is rarely used and was with Ebico until they folded just over a year ago*. - via a brief flirtation with Robin Hood energy. Last June I switched the annex supply to Eon on a 12 month contract and pay just over 8p DSC each for gas and electricity. Looking at all the alternatives available my future DSC charges will more than double.

Some firms with the better tariffs will not allow a gas only supply.

Ebico was great. I used it for a flat when it wasn't being used, so didn't have to pay a standing charge. But there's a reason robin hood energy went bust. Nottingham Council couldn't afford to keep bank rolling it anymore. Perhaps they should have had a standing charge!