Can a company website refuse to allow me to sign up without a mobile number?

powerful_Rogue

unholyangel said:

powerful_Rogue said:

unholyangel said:

powerful_Rogue said:

unholyangel said:

powerful_Rogue said:

Struggling to see how this could be classed as discrimination based on age, and to a certain extent disability.

Seems like it's implying that once you hit a certain age you can't operate a mobile. The same for disability - Which is completly incorrect.

So you don't think the older generations can (not will, but can) experience difficulty in using technology? Same with certain disabilities, you don't think that certain disabilities could prove problematic in operating a mobile phone? 

That's all that's required for equality legislation to apply. It doesn't have to disadvantage every single person who shares that protected characteristic. 

Anyone can expereince difficulties in using technology, regardless of age/disability.

However if that person is able to access and use the internet, then what is the difference from using a mobile phone?

What disabilities are you thinking of? I know my mobile and my work mobile has many features to help and assit those with disabilities.

Yes, but those who are older are more prone to it, because they haven't grown up with it being an everyday part of life like other people. And those growing up with it will experience the same issues when they get older and technology changes. 

As for disabilities, off the top of my head (and to name but a few)....autism, OCD, those who are hearing or sight impaired, dyslexia, dyscalculia, anxiety, PTSD, physical impairment etc. Technology can sometimes remove barriers for disabled people, but sometimes it also creates barriers. 

But the same could be said for people in those categories using a PC/Laptop/Tablet.

If they are able to use one of the above, which they would be in this case as that is the OP's complaint, then they would be able to operate a moble phone which has the same disability features built in.

That's some assumption to be making. You can't assume that because someone can use a website that they can use a mobile phone. Nor does a mobile phone have every single adaption available that's available on a pc. Some more common issues might be available as a OS accessibility feature. But others require specialist software - some of which is only designed for PCs. Some disabilities don't have any software adaptions available (ie anxiety or PTSD). 

I come across people of all different circumstances in my job. You can have two different people with the same condition request different reasonable adjustments because it affects them in different ways or they have different support available to them. 

To try give you an example.....three parents. One single, the other two aren't. Of the two who aren't single, one lives close by family and the other does not. Who (of the three) will have difficulty organising childcare, if they had to change their shift? You might suppose the one who is single or the one who doesn't live near family. The actual answer is any one of them. You can't presume to know someones needs based solely on knowing they have a protected characteristic, even if you know what the characteristic is. 

That's fair enough. However going bu that logic then an awful lot of things could be said to fall fail of the equality act.

unholyangel

powerful_Rogue said:

unholyangel said:

powerful_Rogue said:

unholyangel said:

powerful_Rogue said:

unholyangel said:

powerful_Rogue said:

Struggling to see how this could be classed as discrimination based on age, and to a certain extent disability.

Seems like it's implying that once you hit a certain age you can't operate a mobile. The same for disability - Which is completly incorrect.

So you don't think the older generations can (not will, but can) experience difficulty in using technology? Same with certain disabilities, you don't think that certain disabilities could prove problematic in operating a mobile phone? 

That's all that's required for equality legislation to apply. It doesn't have to disadvantage every single person who shares that protected characteristic. 

Anyone can expereince difficulties in using technology, regardless of age/disability.

However if that person is able to access and use the internet, then what is the difference from using a mobile phone?

What disabilities are you thinking of? I know my mobile and my work mobile has many features to help and assit those with disabilities.

Yes, but those who are older are more prone to it, because they haven't grown up with it being an everyday part of life like other people. And those growing up with it will experience the same issues when they get older and technology changes. 

As for disabilities, off the top of my head (and to name but a few)....autism, OCD, those who are hearing or sight impaired, dyslexia, dyscalculia, anxiety, PTSD, physical impairment etc. Technology can sometimes remove barriers for disabled people, but sometimes it also creates barriers. 

But the same could be said for people in those categories using a PC/Laptop/Tablet.

If they are able to use one of the above, which they would be in this case as that is the OP's complaint, then they would be able to operate a moble phone which has the same disability features built in.

That's some assumption to be making. You can't assume that because someone can use a website that they can use a mobile phone. Nor does a mobile phone have every single adaption available that's available on a pc. Some more common issues might be available as a OS accessibility feature. But others require specialist software - some of which is only designed for PCs. Some disabilities don't have any software adaptions available (ie anxiety or PTSD). 

I come across people of all different circumstances in my job. You can have two different people with the same condition request different reasonable adjustments because it affects them in different ways or they have different support available to them. 

To try give you an example.....three parents. One single, the other two aren't. Of the two who aren't single, one lives close by family and the other does not. Who (of the three) will have difficulty organising childcare, if they had to change their shift? You might suppose the one who is single or the one who doesn't live near family. The actual answer is any one of them. You can't presume to know someones needs based solely on knowing they have a protected characteristic, even if you know what the characteristic is. 

That's fair enough. However going bu that logic then an awful lot of things could be said to fall fail of the equality act.

To be fair, there are an awful lot of things that do fall foul (assuming typo on your part/autocorrect got you) of the equality act! Just as there's a lot of traders who fall foul of consumer protection legislation. 
They typically don't write laws prohibiting things that don't happen. The law exists because the problem (of discriminating) exists.

As with everything, it comes down to whether enough of an issue has occurred for someone to consider taking it on. 

powerful_Rogue

unholyangel said:

powerful_Rogue said:

unholyangel said:

powerful_Rogue said:

unholyangel said:

powerful_Rogue said:

unholyangel said:

powerful_Rogue said:

Struggling to see how this could be classed as discrimination based on age, and to a certain extent disability.

Seems like it's implying that once you hit a certain age you can't operate a mobile. The same for disability - Which is completly incorrect.

So you don't think the older generations can (not will, but can) experience difficulty in using technology? Same with certain disabilities, you don't think that certain disabilities could prove problematic in operating a mobile phone? 

That's all that's required for equality legislation to apply. It doesn't have to disadvantage every single person who shares that protected characteristic. 

Anyone can expereince difficulties in using technology, regardless of age/disability.

However if that person is able to access and use the internet, then what is the difference from using a mobile phone?

What disabilities are you thinking of? I know my mobile and my work mobile has many features to help and assit those with disabilities.

Yes, but those who are older are more prone to it, because they haven't grown up with it being an everyday part of life like other people. And those growing up with it will experience the same issues when they get older and technology changes. 

As for disabilities, off the top of my head (and to name but a few)....autism, OCD, those who are hearing or sight impaired, dyslexia, dyscalculia, anxiety, PTSD, physical impairment etc. Technology can sometimes remove barriers for disabled people, but sometimes it also creates barriers. 

But the same could be said for people in those categories using a PC/Laptop/Tablet.

If they are able to use one of the above, which they would be in this case as that is the OP's complaint, then they would be able to operate a moble phone which has the same disability features built in.

That's some assumption to be making. You can't assume that because someone can use a website that they can use a mobile phone. Nor does a mobile phone have every single adaption available that's available on a pc. Some more common issues might be available as a OS accessibility feature. But others require specialist software - some of which is only designed for PCs. Some disabilities don't have any software adaptions available (ie anxiety or PTSD). 

I come across people of all different circumstances in my job. You can have two different people with the same condition request different reasonable adjustments because it affects them in different ways or they have different support available to them. 

To try give you an example.....three parents. One single, the other two aren't. Of the two who aren't single, one lives close by family and the other does not. Who (of the three) will have difficulty organising childcare, if they had to change their shift? You might suppose the one who is single or the one who doesn't live near family. The actual answer is any one of them. You can't presume to know someones needs based solely on knowing they have a protected characteristic, even if you know what the characteristic is. 

That's fair enough. However going bu that logic then an awful lot of things could be said to fall fail of the equality act.

To be fair, there are an awful lot of things that do fall foul (assuming typo on your part/autocorrect got you) of the equality act! Just as there's a lot of traders who fall foul of consumer protection legislation. 
They typically don't write laws prohibiting things that don't happen. The law exists because the problem (of discriminating) exists.

As with everything, it comes down to whether enough of an issue has occurred for someone to consider taking it on. 

Exactly! For that reason I wouldn't want to be a judge because I can see your point of view, but personally don't agree.

Interesting discussion though!

IvanOpinion

unholyangel said:

1) Didn't say asking for a mobile number was discrimination. I said any policy making a mobile number mandatory (to access a service) is highly likely to be discriminatory. 
But there was no suggestion in the OP that that was the case?  At the minute we work to WCAG 2.1 rules (currently involved in V3 as well) - I still have faith that common sense will prevail .

2) There are no special computing rules! They operate by the exact same scientific rules of computing that everything else does.
You are wrong on this one.  You are moving the goalposts from your original comment about "same programming concepts" and "no special computing rules" to "scientific rules".  There are definitely concept and programming differences.  I would be less sure about 'scientific rules' - but could foresee that new technology could find its way into military development before commercial.

Espionage and spying via technology have become the new major threat to national security over the last few decades. Gone are the days you had to be in the room or physically tap into a phone line or intercept a document. It's not a major threat because they're a safe method of communication, quite the opposite! 
Not sure I understand your last sentence, but there are ways to minimise risk and safely/securely transmit documents and messages.  Most people don't need it to send pictures of grumpy cat

3) Quantum computing is not sci-fi or just theoretical. It exists now. However, they still have to refine it to remove the effects of decoherence to have quantum computing as reliable. Easy enough to google and see if I'm wrong or you are. 

I did not mean quantum computing was sci-fi - but much of what we know about the possibilities at the minute is sci-fi or theoretical (i.e. primarily in laboratory or academia) .  A bit like Star Trek, while it was pure sci-fi, much of the technology mentioned was based on actual science, although some things have now come into the real world.

I remember in my mainframe days when we were told it would take years to crack an 8 character password.  Back then people talked about Cray and other super computers that would soon be able to do it in hours if not minutes.  My desktop could probably hack an 8 character password in that sort of timescale today.  But, as computers get more powerful and introduce new risks, we use that same processing power to mitigate and deflect those risks - bad actors will always try to find ways around new security protocols we just find new ways to defeat them (and so the circle goes on)  Many phone hacks today do not involve computing power - there are easier ways.