Leasehold house - £20000 contribution needed to upgrade roof. Any help appreciated.

ratechaser

bagby said:

Slithery said:

Unfortunately that's the risk you take when you buy a leasehold property with the council as your freeholder.

No reply to you.

And no help for you perhaps but it's a valid statement and a warning to others reading - I very nearly got badly burnt with my first property, which was ex-LA - luckily we had a very effective leaseholders association that was able to hold the council to account...

bagby

ratechaser said:

bagby said:

Slithery said:

Unfortunately that's the risk you take when you buy a leasehold property with the council as your freeholder.

No reply to you.

And no help for you perhaps but it's a valid statement and a warning to others reading - I very nearly got badly burnt with my first property, which was ex-LA - luckily we had a very effective leaseholders association that was able to hold the council to account...

Who would advise you not to buy an ex council property?  We have a flat which we rent out and so far no problems whatsoever.   Did not think that it would ever be this much that she would be expected to pay.   Might be able to accept it more if the cost was reasonable but it’s extremely excessive.   We do need a leaseholders association.   Thanks.

bagby

Mildreds_Earrings said:

bagby said:

Metropolitan have said the cost of £20000 can be paid over twelve months?   £1660 per month.  Can anyone really afford this on a normal wage as well as living expenses.  I think not.   Thanking you in advance.  

Hello, just to reply to this point alone, yes I agree that is a lot of money to pay per month and please don't think I am being unkind or unhelpful but as Metropolitan are not a bank or loan company, they cannot offer unlimited interest free payments. The HA I work for, the maximum we can offer is 3 years repayment for major works and leaseholders still shout at us, saying they cannot repay the full bill over 3 years. Unfortunately, that is not our problem. We provide the service and as leaseholders, they have to pay their share. All HAs (& Metropolitan) can do is give a repayment option. If they are not happy with that option, use another option to pay the bill.  Further, it is my understanding that if the HA offer repayments over a certain length of time (used to be 5 years maximum) the Financial Conduct Authority have to get involved. 
Regarding your main point, maybe your daughter can get enough evidence with her Group to prove the major works are unnecessary and take Metropolitan to the Leasehold Tribunal? Also check the Leasehold Pack that she purchased before sale (presuming she or the Vendor paid for it) because forthcoming major works within 2 years needs to be declared, together with any estimated costs. Hope that helps. 

Thank you very clear.   She has been in the house six years.   Looking at a leasehold tribunal.      Could the tribunal make the decision on whether reasonable and worth the cost  or will she have to go to court to fight it.  The person who is organising the group seems to think that metropolitan have it all sewn up legally.   Which they probably will have with their legal teams and householders are left floundering.   Metropolitan have said their lowest quote is £80000 which will divided by the four flats ( so daughter has 25%) and this is only an estimate.   These are not wealthy people yet twelve months to pay £20000 for some is a living wage per year.

firsttimesellerldn

Don’t give up. As well as looking at tribunal it’s also worth making noise to make clear to the council that the residents aren’t going to take this lying down. Eg. writing to local councillors, or seeing if any local press are interested in the story. 

bagby

firsttimesellerldn said:

Don’t give up. As well as looking at tribunal it’s also worth making noise to make clear to the council that the residents aren’t going to take this lying down. Eg. writing to local councillors, or seeing if any local press are interested in the story. 

Thanks.  A councillor is on board and maybe looking at the press.  

bagby

Mildreds_Earrings said:

bagby said:

Metropolitan have said the cost of £20000 can be paid over twelve months?   £1660 per month.  Can anyone really afford this on a normal wage as well as living expenses.  I think not.   Thanking you in advance.  

Hello, just to reply to this point alone, yes I agree that is a lot of money to pay per month and please don't think I am being unkind or unhelpful but as Metropolitan are not a bank or loan company, they cannot offer unlimited interest free payments. The HA I work for, the maximum we can offer is 3 years repayment for major works and leaseholders still shout at us, saying they cannot repay the full bill over 3 years. Unfortunately, that is not our problem. We provide the service and as leaseholders, they have to pay their share. All HAs (& Metropolitan) can do is give a repayment option. If they are not happy with that option, use another option to pay the bill.  Further, it is my understanding that if the HA offer repayments over a certain length of time (used to be 5 years maximum) the Financial Conduct Authority have to get involved. 
Regarding your main point, maybe your daughter can get enough evidence with her Group to prove the major works are unnecessary and take Metropolitan to the Leasehold Tribunal? Also check the Leasehold Pack that she purchased before sale (presuming she or the Vendor paid for it) because forthcoming major works within 2 years needs to be declared, together with any estimated costs. Hope that helps. 

 Noted that you work for a ha - if possible, would you know if many residents are successful in appealing these decisions and also if you have any advice for her (other than the tribunal)  that you could give about best way to deal with this.   She quickly got a roofers quote and he said her whole roof did not need doing only repairs and it would last thirty to forty years so presumably she could get a surveyor to confirm this in future but it was a time issue.  She was just about to exchange contracts on buying a new home when this raised its ugly head so doubly stressful.   You can pm me.  Thanks in advance

Mildreds_Earrings

bagby said:

Mildreds_Earrings said:

bagby said:

Metropolitan have said the cost of £20000 can be paid over twelve months?   £1660 per month.  Can anyone really afford this on a normal wage as well as living expenses.  I think not.   Thanking you in advance.  

Hello, just to reply to this point alone, yes I agree that is a lot of money to pay per month and please don't think I am being unkind or unhelpful but as Metropolitan are not a bank or loan company, they cannot offer unlimited interest free payments. The HA I work for, the maximum we can offer is 3 years repayment for major works and leaseholders still shout at us, saying they cannot repay the full bill over 3 years. Unfortunately, that is not our problem. We provide the service and as leaseholders, they have to pay their share. All HAs (& Metropolitan) can do is give a repayment option. If they are not happy with that option, use another option to pay the bill.  Further, it is my understanding that if the HA offer repayments over a certain length of time (used to be 5 years maximum) the Financial Conduct Authority have to get involved. 
Regarding your main point, maybe your daughter can get enough evidence with her Group to prove the major works are unnecessary and take Metropolitan to the Leasehold Tribunal? Also check the Leasehold Pack that she purchased before sale (presuming she or the Vendor paid for it) because forthcoming major works within 2 years needs to be declared, together with any estimated costs. Hope that helps. 

 Noted that you work for a ha - if possible, would you know if many residents are successful in appealing these decisions and also if you have any advice for her (other than the tribunal)  that you could give about best way to deal with this.   She quickly got a roofers quote and he said her whole roof did not need doing only repairs and it would last thirty to forty years so presumably she could get a surveyor to confirm this in future but it was a time issue.  She was just about to exchange contracts on buying a new home when this raised its ugly head so doubly stressful.   You can pm me.  Thanks in advance

Hello @bagby
Google 'First-tier Tribunal (Property Chamber) decisions' and 'Leasehold Valuation Tribunal (LVT) decisions' and you will find details of cases and the outcomes for many leaseholder S20 major works cases.

Your daughter's roofer who carried out an inspection would have to give a like for like quotation, not just for the works but they will need to have liability insurance, correct scaffolding, produce health and safety statements for example. Unfortunately many leaseholders approach us and say their mate can do it cheaper and when we look into it, their tradesmen does not have the capacity to price up our carry out such a big job. The S20 Consultation the HA serves on each leaseholder before major works, will assist you, as the documents are quite detailed. 

If the HA can demonstrate the S20 Consultation Procedure was carried out correctly, why the works are required, why that particular contractor was chosen and how they have arrived at the estimated costs, in my experience, whilst the Tribunal Panel may sympathise with leaseholders, the leaseholders end up losing their case. The Panel are very fair (and biased to leaseholders if anything, in my experience) and if the HA has done something incorrectly, then the Panel will throw the book at them. However, if the HA has done everything correctly, then the leaseholder will lose the case.

Be warned that our HA (and others) are  considering adding the charge of the amount of time it takes to prepare for a Tribunal Hearing (additional works) and paying a Barrister to defend the case and recharging it back to the leaseholders. Our HA are taking legal advice on whether they can do this and if so, how to enforce it.  This is because it takes up a lot of our time and it is deeply frustrating when we know we have done everything correctly, given our leaseholders up to four years notice of major works in some cases, then they still take us to a Tribunal. They lose and they only pay the Tribunal application fee. We win and we have lost all the time and money spent defending the case. 

That said, I used to own an ex-Council flat, so I have been on both sides and I do empathise. It's just that some leaseholders are quick to complain and threaten taking us to the Tribunal but if we allowed the building to get into disrepair and the roof started leaking, they would be the first ones to complain (or blame our tenants)!

Anyway, I hope the above helps 🙂 You will find loads of information on the Internet about the S20 Consultation Procedure and leasehold related Tribunals. 

HampshireH

Mildreds_Earrings said:

bagby said:

Mildreds_Earrings said:

bagby said:

Metropolitan have said the cost of £20000 can be paid over twelve months?   £1660 per month.  Can anyone really afford this on a normal wage as well as living expenses.  I think not.   Thanking you in advance.  

Hello, just to reply to this point alone, yes I agree that is a lot of money to pay per month and please don't think I am being unkind or unhelpful but as Metropolitan are not a bank or loan company, they cannot offer unlimited interest free payments. The HA I work for, the maximum we can offer is 3 years repayment for major works and leaseholders still shout at us, saying they cannot repay the full bill over 3 years. Unfortunately, that is not our problem. We provide the service and as leaseholders, they have to pay their share. All HAs (& Metropolitan) can do is give a repayment option. If they are not happy with that option, use another option to pay the bill.  Further, it is my understanding that if the HA offer repayments over a certain length of time (used to be 5 years maximum) the Financial Conduct Authority have to get involved. 
Regarding your main point, maybe your daughter can get enough evidence with her Group to prove the major works are unnecessary and take Metropolitan to the Leasehold Tribunal? Also check the Leasehold Pack that she purchased before sale (presuming she or the Vendor paid for it) because forthcoming major works within 2 years needs to be declared, together with any estimated costs. Hope that helps. 

 Noted that you work for a ha - if possible, would you know if many residents are successful in appealing these decisions and also if you have any advice for her (other than the tribunal)  that you could give about best way to deal with this.   She quickly got a roofers quote and he said her whole roof did not need doing only repairs and it would last thirty to forty years so presumably she could get a surveyor to confirm this in future but it was a time issue.  She was just about to exchange contracts on buying a new home when this raised its ugly head so doubly stressful.   You can pm me.  Thanks in advance

Hello @bagby
Google 'First-tier Tribunal (Property Chamber) decisions' and 'Leasehold Valuation Tribunal (LVT) decisions' and you will find details of cases and the outcomes for many leaseholder S20 major works cases.

Your daughter's roofer who carried out an inspection would have to give a like for like quotation, not just for the works but they will need to have liability insurance, correct scaffolding, produce health and safety statements for example. Unfortunately many leaseholders approach us and say their mate can do it cheaper and when we look into it, their tradesmen does not have the capacity to price up our carry out such a big job. The S20 Consultation the HA serves on each leaseholder before major works, will assist you, as the documents are quite detailed. 

If the HA can demonstrate the S20 Consultation Procedure was carried out correctly, why the works are required, why that particular contractor was chosen and how they have arrived at the estimated costs, in my experience, whilst the Tribunal Panel may sympathise with leaseholders, the leaseholders end up losing their case. The Panel are very fair (and biased to leaseholders if anything, in my experience) and if the HA has done something incorrectly, then the Panel will throw the book at them. However, if the HA has done everything correctly, then the leaseholder will lose the case.

Be warned that our HA (and others) are  considering adding the charge of the amount of time it takes to prepare for a Tribunal Hearing (additional works) and paying a Barrister to defend the case and recharging it back to the leaseholders. Our HA are taking legal advice on whether they can do this and if so, how to enforce it.  This is because it takes up a lot of our time and it is deeply frustrating when we know we have done everything correctly, given our leaseholders up to four years notice of major works in some cases, then they still take us to a Tribunal. They lose and they only pay the Tribunal application fee. We win and we have lost all the time and money spent defending the case. 

That said, I used to own an ex-Council flat, so I have been on both sides and I do empathise. It's just that some leaseholders are quick to complain and threaten taking us to the Tribunal but if we allowed the building to get into disrepair and the roof started leaking, they would be the first ones to complain (or blame our tenants)!

Anyway, I hope the above helps 🙂 You will find loads of information on the Internet about the S20 Consultation Procedure and leasehold related Tribunals. 

This is a great post

bagby

HampshireH said:

Mildreds_Earrings said:

bagby said:

Mildreds_Earrings said:

bagby said:

Metropolitan have said the cost of £20000 can be paid over twelve months?   £1660 per month.  Can anyone really afford this on a normal wage as well as living expenses.  I think not.   Thanking you in advance.  

Hello, just to reply to this point alone, yes I agree that is a lot of money to pay per month and please don't think I am being unkind or unhelpful but as Metropolitan are not a bank or loan company, they cannot offer unlimited interest free payments. The HA I work for, the maximum we can offer is 3 years repayment for major works and leaseholders still shout at us, saying they cannot repay the full bill over 3 years. Unfortunately, that is not our problem. We provide the service and as leaseholders, they have to pay their share. All HAs (& Metropolitan) can do is give a repayment option. If they are not happy with that option, use another option to pay the bill.  Further, it is my understanding that if the HA offer repayments over a certain length of time (used to be 5 years maximum) the Financial Conduct Authority have to get involved. 
Regarding your main point, maybe your daughter can get enough evidence with her Group to prove the major works are unnecessary and take Metropolitan to the Leasehold Tribunal? Also check the Leasehold Pack that she purchased before sale (presuming she or the Vendor paid for it) because forthcoming major works within 2 years needs to be declared, together with any estimated costs. Hope that helps. 

 Noted that you work for a ha - if possible, would you know if many residents are successful in appealing these decisions and also if you have any advice for her (other than the tribunal)  that you could give about best way to deal with this.   She quickly got a roofers quote and he said her whole roof did not need doing only repairs and it would last thirty to forty years so presumably she could get a surveyor to confirm this in future but it was a time issue.  She was just about to exchange contracts on buying a new home when this raised its ugly head so doubly stressful.   You can pm me.  Thanks in advance

Hello @bagby
Google 'First-tier Tribunal (Property Chamber) decisions' and 'Leasehold Valuation Tribunal (LVT) decisions' and you will find details of cases and the outcomes for many leaseholder S20 major works cases.

Your daughter's roofer who carried out an inspection would have to give a like for like quotation, not just for the works but they will need to have liability insurance, correct scaffolding, produce health and safety statements for example. Unfortunately many leaseholders approach us and say their mate can do it cheaper and when we look into it, their tradesmen does not have the capacity to price up our carry out such a big job. The S20 Consultation the HA serves on each leaseholder before major works, will assist you, as the documents are quite detailed. 

If the HA can demonstrate the S20 Consultation Procedure was carried out correctly, why the works are required, why that particular contractor was chosen and how they have arrived at the estimated costs, in my experience, whilst the Tribunal Panel may sympathise with leaseholders, the leaseholders end up losing their case. The Panel are very fair (and biased to leaseholders if anything, in my experience) and if the HA has done something incorrectly, then the Panel will throw the book at them. However, if the HA has done everything correctly, then the leaseholder will lose the case.

Be warned that our HA (and others) are  considering adding the charge of the amount of time it takes to prepare for a Tribunal Hearing (additional works) and paying a Barrister to defend the case and recharging it back to the leaseholders. Our HA are taking legal advice on whether they can do this and if so, how to enforce it.  This is because it takes up a lot of our time and it is deeply frustrating when we know we have done everything correctly, given our leaseholders up to four years notice of major works in some cases, then they still take us to a Tribunal. They lose and they only pay the Tribunal application fee. We win and we have lost all the time and money spent defending the case. 

That said, I used to own an ex-Council flat, so I have been on both sides and I do empathise. It's just that some leaseholders are quick to complain and threaten taking us to the Tribunal but if we allowed the building to get into disrepair and the roof started leaking, they would be the first ones to complain (or blame our tenants)!

Anyway, I hope the above helps 🙂 You will find loads of information on the Internet about the S20 Consultation Procedure and leasehold related Tribunals. 

This is a great post

I know it is.  

bagby

Mildreds_Earrings said:

bagby said:

Mildreds_Earrings said:

bagby said:

Metropolitan have said the cost of £20000 can be paid over twelve months?   £1660 per month.  Can anyone really afford this on a normal wage as well as living expenses.  I think not.   Thanking you in advance.  

Hello, just to reply to this point alone, yes I agree that is a lot of money to pay per month and please don't think I am being unkind or unhelpful but as Metropolitan are not a bank or loan company, they cannot offer unlimited interest free payments. The HA I work for, the maximum we can offer is 3 years repayment for major works and leaseholders still shout at us, saying they cannot repay the full bill over 3 years. Unfortunately, that is not our problem. We provide the service and as leaseholders, they have to pay their share. All HAs (& Metropolitan) can do is give a repayment option. If they are not happy with that option, use another option to pay the bill.  Further, it is my understanding that if the HA offer repayments over a certain length of time (used to be 5 years maximum) the Financial Conduct Authority have to get involved. 
Regarding your main point, maybe your daughter can get enough evidence with her Group to prove the major works are unnecessary and take Metropolitan to the Leasehold Tribunal? Also check the Leasehold Pack that she purchased before sale (presuming she or the Vendor paid for it) because forthcoming major works within 2 years needs to be declared, together with any estimated costs. Hope that helps. 

 Noted that you work for a ha - if possible, would you know if many residents are successful in appealing these decisions and also if you have any advice for her (other than the tribunal)  that you could give about best way to deal with this.   She quickly got a roofers quote and he said her whole roof did not need doing only repairs and it would last thirty to forty years so presumably she could get a surveyor to confirm this in future but it was a time issue.  She was just about to exchange contracts on buying a new home when this raised its ugly head so doubly stressful.   You can pm me.  Thanks in advance

Hello @bagby
Google 'First-tier Tribunal (Property Chamber) decisions' and 'Leasehold Valuation Tribunal (LVT) decisions' and you will find details of cases and the outcomes for many leaseholder S20 major works cases.

Your daughter's roofer who carried out an inspection would have to give a like for like quotation, not just for the works but they will need to have liability insurance, correct scaffolding, produce health and safety statements for example. Unfortunately many leaseholders approach us and say their mate can do it cheaper and when we look into it, their tradesmen does not have the capacity to price up our carry out such a big job. The S20 Consultation the HA serves on each leaseholder before major works, will assist you, as the documents are quite detailed. 

If the HA can demonstrate the S20 Consultation Procedure was carried out correctly, why the works are required, why that particular contractor was chosen and how they have arrived at the estimated costs, in my experience, whilst the Tribunal Panel may sympathise with leaseholders, the leaseholders end up losing their case. The Panel are very fair (and biased to leaseholders if anything, in my experience) and if the HA has done something incorrectly, then the Panel will throw the book at them. However, if the HA has done everything correctly, then the leaseholder will lose the case.

Be warned that our HA (and others) are  considering adding the charge of the amount of time it takes to prepare for a Tribunal Hearing (additional works) and paying a Barrister to defend the case and recharging it back to the leaseholders. Our HA are taking legal advice on whether they can do this and if so, how to enforce it.  This is because it takes up a lot of our time and it is deeply frustrating when we know we have done everything correctly, given our leaseholders up to four years notice of major works in some cases, then they still take us to a Tribunal. They lose and they only pay the Tribunal application fee. We win and we have lost all the time and money spent defending the case. 

That said, I used to own an ex-Council flat, so I have been on both sides and I do empathise. It's just that some leaseholders are quick to complain and threaten taking us to the Tribunal but if we allowed the building to get into disrepair and the roof started leaking, they would be the first ones to complain (or blame our tenants)!

Anyway, I hope the above helps 🙂 You will find loads of information on the Internet about the S20 Consultation Procedure and leasehold related Tribunals. 

Thank you for being very helpful.  I’ll pass this on.