Heir Hunters

Jon113

I was recently contacted by a small firm of heir hunters who are legit and have been on tv.  Unbeknown to us one of my brothers has already been contacted, signed the agreement without thinking, regrets it. A name has been given and mention of a funeral needing to take place, along with the fact they don't think there is much in the estate. 

The other 3 of us have concerns so are not signing.  We have concluded the deceased is probably an illegitimate half brother, previously unknown.  It would seem the local council have gone direct to the heir hunters to save costs on a state funeral, the name does not appear on the Bona Vacantia.

The agreement states 'This agreement is deemed to bind my heirs, successors and assigns'  Are the 3 of us classed as assigns and therefore liable and legally bound by the agreement our brother signed?

If there isn't enough in the estate to cover costs/debits and the heir hunters fee (based on the gross estate value) does that mean we would be liable to pay them out of our own pockets.

We live in the north, the heir hunters are southern based so presumably close to the deceased.  With only a name that's not on the list and no specific date of death, how do we find out more info without making ourselves liable?

This person appears to have been born illegitimate and died alone.  I'm more interested in putting a face to a name, preventing the ashes from being disposed of with other anonymous individuals and treating him with respect. 

Mojisola

Jon113 said:

It would seem the local council have gone direct to the heir hunters to save costs on a state funeral, the name does not appear on the Bona Vacantia.

I don't think this is right.  If there is anything in the estate, the council could reclaim the costs of the funeral.

If there isn't anything, the Heir Hunters wouldn't have started looking for heirs.  They must think there's enough there to ensure they will get paid.

Flugelhorn

Jon113 said:

If there isn't enough in the estate to cover costs/debits and the heir hunters fee (based on the gross estate value) does that mean we would be liable to pay them out of our own pockets.

If there is no money in the estate then the heir hunters fee will be non-existent, they will not be doing this for nothing. If there has been no funeral yet then it is unlikely to have been time for it to have got to bona vacantia.  I don't think brother signing with them affects your rights to the estate

74jax

Surely the Heir Hunters wouldnt waste their time on an estate with no money, that doesn't make sense.
My friend was contacted by one, we took ages checking them out (it was a few years ago and pretty unheard of). She signed and her sister didn't. Totally forgot about it and a almost 2 years later recieved a cheque (less all bills etc). So it doesn't matter if you don't sign, it shouldn't affect the one who has. 

getmore4less

It is not unusual for those that are dealing with a deceased as a side effect of their role, care home, hospital, councils, landlord, solicitors, friend to seek help of the heir hunter early rather than submit to Bona Vacantia and give all the heir hunters a stab at it

eg it is know there are living relatives just unknown who or where they are call in HH to find them
Might even be a will, sometimes a child knows they have 1/2 siblings but the others don't

The issue for you is how much work do you want to put in.
With a name you can probably find the death certificate, from their birth certificate and parents that would give you a start.
if you can get an address you might be able to establish if they owned that property. 

Thing is you only have the tree of relatives that you are on there may be others.

Having found one relative if they are a valid beneficiary then they can proceed to administration, either let that relative do the work or often they employ the professionals and that costs. 

As above the estate may get administered and distributed anyway.
You do get stories where a relative has refused to sign up then they get asked to prove their relationship before they would get their shares.

Jon113

Thanks for all your help and info.

I too wondered why HH would be interested in pursuing an estate of alleged low value until research revealed that apparently the incidence of councils, solicitors, even neighbours referring intestate estates direct, is increasing. The inference was these relationships appeared to be mutually beneficial, perhaps a case of you win some, you loose some. Either way these estates never reach the BV list, it's not a level playing field and the process is not transparent.

Not sure what will happen with my brother that's signed.  Apart from his own birth certificate he doesn't have access to the other documentation that was requested, hasn't heard from HH and thinks they've gone away.  However they have their signed agreement to act and can purchase relevant certificates so presumably have all they need to obtain letters of administration and disperse the estate without our knowledge or consent.

It turns out that fortunately one of us has a family friend who's really interested in genealogy so she's going to see what she can uncover, hopefully more than the dead ends I kept getting. In the meantime, presumably all the personal effects, photos, information etc will be destroyed and we will never know anything more about this person, very sad.

Grumpelstiltskin

As long as the events took place in England or Wales anyone can obtain copies of Birth, Marriage and Death certificates from here.
Order a copy of a birth, death or marriage certificate - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)
That is the official Gov.UK website do not order from anywhere else.

smalandcute

I know I am a little late to this thread but in regards to the deceased possessions I would write to the HH, Local Authority and anyone else who is dealing with the estate asking for things like photos and keepsakes to be kept to one side so that if you are confirmed to be family and thus beneficiaries you can put a face to a name. Also request this persons ashes to be kept safe by the funeral directors if you know who they are (could always call each of the local directors to find out who is arranging the funeral etc) until clarification is confirmed this person is your half brother and that you would like his ashes.

I hope this gentleman's family is found if its not yourselves and you get the answers you are searching for.

Jon113

To update, we're not sure what's going on.  The brother who signed has still not heard anything, is thankful and not discussing it.  Curiosity got the better of us so one of my other brothers rang the HH on the number listed on their letter and asked for the signatory.  That person was not available, they would call back, they didn't.  The next day, using the mobile number we were initially contacted on, we called direct.  After explaining who we were we were told she would have to find the file and would call back, no call. So, we still only have a name and the name and address of the HH company who are now being evasive.

It's easy to conclude that the HH don't want to talk to us because they already have what they want, the signed agreement.  However they already had that before contacting me so that doesn't seem to add up.

Thanks Smalandcute for your suggestions, good ideas, will look into it.

getmore4less

Estates that hit the BV list no longer have estimates of size so HH pick them up speculatively and have competition, increased risk of no return

Given an exclusive lead can come with more information and lower risk.

HappyScotsman

If the council commissioned the HH, they will be paying a fixed fee. The job of the HH is to find a relative and start administration. No doubt the council will then claim against the estate to recover their funeral costs and HH will take a percentage (25% perhaps) as their fee. My understanding is their fee is against the entire estate rather than just the share of the first relative they found.

It might be argued that your brother doesn't have the right to enter his relatives into a contract without their explicit consent. You may want to take legal advice via Citizens Advice or perhaps you have a legal assist add on to an insurance policy or membership.