DB pension transferred, now they want some money back

princeofpounds

As the others have said, go, listen to what they have to say, record the meeting. Ask questions. But do not answer any questions. Don't even begin to offer up a 'defence'. The meeting is for them to explain and justify only, and you will respond in due course after considering their request with appropriate advice.

If it's a genuine mistake you may have to pay the money back, annoying as it sounds. But a change of position defence is worth considering. The counterfactual scenario of staying in the scheme also needs examining, as suggested previously. There's also a question of whether you get professional advice (to examine your situation and negotiate a settlement perhaps) and who pays for that.

nigelbb

If they have made a mistake then they will be obliged to ask you to return the money even if they have no expectation that you will comply so they may well just be going through the motions.

I would be astonished if there wasn't some wording in whatever documents were signed when you took the money to the effect that the money was in full & final settlement with no possibility of you claiming a pension or more money or the pension fund clawing back any money.

The idea that the recipient would know that the CETV was incorrect is ludicrous. The different values we see reported on this forum vary wildly. How would the recipient know that 25x or 35x or 45x was correct? It's an offer for you to give up your rights to a DB pension & only you can decide whether the offer is enough to make giving up the guaranteed pension worthwhile.

cfw1994

Watching with mild horror and interest!
Plenty of good advice already given.  

I would personally insist on the meeting having the IFA present, at *their* cost.....and record everything.
And make a very big point that you are recording everything.

They have clearly made some ludicrous error that neither you nor your IFA could have checked.
Although surely the IFA has some duties, covered by their insurance we read of on here, to confirm with the DB fund managers that the numbers are correct?  You paid for that expert work in analysing the transfer.

I am also astonished that the DB Trustees are allowed this long after to declare ‘oh, we made a mistake, sorry: you owe us £xxx.
And yes, contact TPAS before having this meeting.   Delay the meeting if you have to.

soulsaver

The statute of limitations refers to errors in how much you are being paid ongoing as a pension, not to a DB transfer.

An agreement to give up your DB rights in exchange for a sum of money is governed by contract law. There is no statute of limitations, unless specifically included as clause in the terms of the agreement.

This is simply contract law, nothing else:
 
You had a contract.

They offered you a sum of money in exchange for you giving up your DB pension. 

You accepted their offer.

They paid you the consideration (£cetv) and you gave up your DB rights.

All that is irrevocable... Unless they can point to clauses that you agreed to (signed) that specify circumstances under which they can demand return of funds.

Check your papers.

RetSol

Good advice on here so far.  I would re-iterate three points. 
1.  As you are still employed by the same employer who is responsible for the pension, you are the subordinate in a power relationship with the counterparty.  Do not allow yourself to be bullied.
2. The six year limitation period is irrelevant.  The fact that the payment was made less than 6 years ago does not entitle the pension provider to a refund.  The payment was made as a result of a mistake and the law relating to payments made under a mistake is relevant - see https://levisolicitors.co.uk/news/doctrine-of-mistake. And do your own research.
3. Depending on the amount involved, it may be worth instructing solicitors. 

dunstonh

Although surely the IFA has some duties, covered by their insurance we read of on here, to confirm with the DB fund managers that the numbers are correct?  You paid for that expert work in analysing the transfer.

The IFA has no input in the CETV and no ability to know whether it is correct or not.    The IFA would obtain the figures in writing and would accept those figures as being correct.   The CETVs are usually checked and double checked by administrators before issuing them.   The IFA will base their advice on the information supplied.   

TVAS

CETV are done by one person, checked by another person. If it is a large sum it needs senior manager sign off. Sometimes even as high as director level. The key point is you made the transfer based on the factual information given to you. By asking for some of the money back undermines the WHOLE transfer and ADVICE, so it is REASONABLE, to say had you been aware of the correct figures the transfer would not have been viable. So I again say it is only 2 options return the whole sum or return nothing at all. 

jamesd

And remember throughout: your best option is likely to be to have the DB reinstated... then transfer out again at today's CETV.

However, it'd be better still to wait until you're closer to 55. There's some risk that changes to interest rates could cause the CETV to fall whole waiting but there's a certain built in increase each year. Hence best to wait but a chance that it won't end up higher even though that's the most likely outcome.

Col349

SoulSaver
The statute of limitations refers to errors in how much you are being paid ongoing as a pension, not to a DB transfer.
Is there somewhere I can point them to and show them this and say Look you can't do this?

Meeting today was interesting.  At first they were asking circa 60k, they said an error had been made and now are asking circa 40k!.  I didn't say much after that.
Am getting calculations and replies to questions in a few weeks time, so will ring Pension Advisory Service in that time and see what they say, will report back on any interesting information I receive in that time.
JamesD - passed 55 a few years back
Many Thanks for all the advice

JoeCrystal

Col349 said:

Am getting calculations and replies to questions in a few weeks time, so will ring Pension Advisory Service in that time and see what they say, will report back on any interesting information I receive in that time.

Well, that doesn't sound like a productive meeting! You would thought they had all the answers ready for your questions. The fact they are asking £40k instead sound like they made a real mess of it! I don't see why it should take weeks for answers to arrive. Are they doing the calculations on the abacus and sending the results by post?!