PCM rejected my appeal and said this...

unknown827

I really appreciate the NEWBIES FAQ and I have followed all the guidances and have only appealed as KEEPER, not naming the driver. However, my appeal has been rejected with this, what should I do? If they take me to court wouldn’t the judge ask who the driver was? I’m a bit worried 

Redx

Yes they could ask in court , requiring a truthful answer

Plan A is your best option here , as mentioned in the newbies FAQ sticky thread near the top of the forum

There is no easy answer

Le_Kirk

Did you appeal against a windscreen ticket?  I.E. a Notice to Driver?  Whatever you do, do not tell them the driver's name.  Wait patiently for the NTK.  If it gets to court, you do not lie to the judge.  You need to read the NTD and the NTK (when it arrives) to make sure they are POFA compliant; if they are, then there is nothing to be gained by protecting the driver as the keeper can be held liable.  If however, they are not POFA compliant - only appeal as keeper. 

Umkomaas

Is this a continuation of your other thread about PCMUK, because if it is your queries about it should be included there. Questions are being asked above that I'm sure will have already been asked on your other PCMUK thread. The forum is so busy, the last thing we want is duplicate workload.  

unknown827

Thanks for your help and I apologise I’m new to these forums.. can I delete my last 3 posts? 

Coupon-mad

Nah just let this thread die and it will be forgotten.

Reply with an update on your existing thread and we'll see that.

unknown827

Understood, sorry for the confusion from my side. Just one question, the NEWBIES FAQ only revolves around no driver liability and not saying who the keeper was during time of enforcement. If it goes to court and you tell the judge truthfully that you was the driver when they ask etc etc, wouldn’t you lose the case? 

D_P_Dance

Have you complained to your MP?

Le_Kirk

unknown827 said:

Understood, sorry for the confusion from my side. Just one question, the NEWBIES FAQ only revolves around no driver liability and not saying who the keeper was during time of enforcement. If it goes to court and you tell the judge truthfully that you was the driver when they ask etc etc, wouldn’t you lose the case? 

The advice is not to say who was driving as there is more protection for the keeper in the Protection of Freedoms Act (POFA).  If you tell the court that you were driving, either in the defence and/or witness statement or tell the judge, you (the keeper) lose the protection of POFA only if the parking company have complied with POFA and intend to rely on it.  You don't immediately lose the case as there may be other factors in your defence.

unknown827

no I haven’t complained to my MP yet. I see, so also talk about their signs etc etc. Not just rely on one aspect 

Redx

Being a driver can sometimes assist in a case , because they can concentrate on the immediate issues that led to the PCN being issued

Poor and inadequate or confusing signage , poorly lit if at night
No landowner authority or contract

Other legal issues
The CRA 2015

Keeper liability or not , under POFA is just one aspect , but not the only one , it only helps a keeper who was not the driver , in most cases 

We have seen many cases won on the points I mentioned above