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NTK posted in time but delivered late, strange wording from NCP
Thanks to everyone who posts on here, as it's because of you that I knew I could win this one. Surprisingly, I won on direct appeal to NCP. I had already started getting the POPLA appeal ready as I really didn't think the first round was anything but a formality. Here's the timeline:
31/03/2021 - my car in NCP car park for 19 minutes (while driver and passenger argued about whether to park!!)
12/04/2021 - NCP issue me an NTK
14/04/2021 - last acceptable date for NTK to arrive
19/04/2021 - NTK actually arrives.
I had two main points to bring to POPLA. (1) The NTK didn't actually have any language that, on plain reading, transferred liability from driver to keeper. It was just a weird threatening sounding letter. (2) It was late, and they should have known it would be late.
So, in case it helps anyone, here are the arguments I would have made! First, on the language in the NTK.
The second defect was the lateness of delivery. I found the T&C for The Delivery Group online and it's fairly clear that they don't consider themselves a mail carrier and that sending things by them is slower than posting them. So I think this argument had legs and I'm almost sorry I couldn't make it! The T&C are here: www dot thedeliverygroup dot co dot uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/TDG-Key-Terms-Schedule-2019-new-customer.pdf
This clearly shows that NCP could nevery expect delivery within the required timeframe.
So, if anyone else gets an NTK just outside 14 days delivered by one of these batch mailing companies, you might want to try this argument out!
Comments
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That's very interesting and a rare thread because you've told us something new!

How do you know NCP use The Delivery Group as a (clearly delaying) middleman 'mail consolidator' (their phrase)?
https://www.thedeliverygroup.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/TDG-Key-Terms-Schedule-2019-new-customer.pdf2.5 The Customer acknowledges and agrees that the Service Provider is a Consolidator of Mail. The Service Provider receives mail from organisations, processes and sorts such mail and then transfers the mail to a Carrier, whom carries out the final mile delivery of mail to Recipients.
2.6 The Service Provider will use its reasonable endeavours to deliver Mail to the applicable Carrier within two Business Days of Collection at the Collection Address but the Customer acknowledges and agrees that the Service Provider is not responsible for delays caused by circumstances beyond its control, including road closures and other traffic incidents. The Customer further acknowledges and agrees that the Service Provider uses Carriers for final sortation and delivery of all Items to Recipients. The Service Provider does not guarantee the actual delivery date of any Item to Recipients and time for performance of the Services is not of the essence. Accordingly, the Service Provider shall not be liable to the Customer or to any other person for failure to deliver within the service timeframe set out in the Agreement.
8.2 The Customer acknowledges and agrees that the treatment of all Mail by the applicable Carrier once it is transferred to them pursuant to this Agreement will be the same as in the case of other mail posted via the applicable Carrier and the Service Provider does not keep detailed records of conveyance or delivery of any specific Item.So, this service collects mail from a PPC or, more likely, prints it for them (if we know for sure that any PPC use this mail consolidator) and can then sit on these batches of mail for two business days before even thinking about 'transferring' it to the Royal Mail, which across a weekend or bank holiday, means it doesn't even reach the Royal Mail for up to a WEEK after the NTK was purportedly dated.
ParkingEye PCNs always arrive about a week after they are dated. I wonder if they use a mail consolidator/collection service?
I reckon people could ask for this information under a SAR, of any parking firm:
''Regarding companies with whom you share my data, please advise who do you use for the purposes of printing and/or collecting and/or transferring mail to a carrier?
Do you use a service such as a 'mail consolidator' (batch mailing firm who transfer letters in bulk to a carrier to deliver) and if so, which firm?
Do they print the letters and therefore have my data in their database, or do they physically collect and distribute pre-printed mail for you?
Which company was used to print and/or transfer mail including my Notice to Keeper (parking ref xxxxxxx) to the Royal Mail (or other carrier to facilitate final delivery) and when - on what exact or approximate date - was my data passed to that company?''
PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD5 -
All I had to go on here was the envelope, which has 'The Delivery Group' printed on it at the top right along with 'Delivered by Royal Mail'. There are some bar codes and alphanumeric codes on it that probably allow TDG to trace it. I retained the envelope and would have submitted it as well, and hoped that I had a convincing argument that on balance of probabilities the situation described above is what happened. I mean, I'm pretty sure that is what happened, so why wouldn't an assessor or judge agree! And if something less likely happened, if they have an arrangement with TDG which is for faster delivery, well, they could just say so and prove it, couldn't they?
I think the 'time is not of the essence' phrase is pretty hard to overcome as well.1 -
Have you complained to your MP?You never know how far you can go until you go too far.0
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I have submitted a request to MP but has not received a response, do you have any help?D_P_Dance said:Have you complained to your MP?
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do you have any help?
I have a chap comes in to do a bit of gardening if that is what you mean.
You never know how far you can go until you go too far.0 -
Quite amusing @D_P_Dance but I think you know what the OP was asking for; help to get some response from his MP as you suggested he complain to them.D_P_Dance said:do you have any help?
I have a chap comes in to do a bit of gardening if that is what you mean.2 -
Is that all? At your age I'd have thought you'd have a nurse and bath attendant! 😄D_P_Dance said:do you have any help?
I have a chap comes in to do a bit of gardening if that is what you mean.Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .
I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.
Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street1 -
All I had to go on here was the envelope, which has 'The Delivery Group' printed on it at the top right along with 'Delivered by Royal Mail'.Why have we never noticed that?
Can you show us a photo of the envelope and the top of the NTK in the same photo (to tally the two together to show this was an NCP eenvelope) as I'd like us to be able to use that as an argument, at least in NCP cases.
I really wonder if ParkingEye use the same company but we will have to remember to ask people with 'late NTKs' to ask in their SAR!
Hopefully the new statutory CoP (or the audit/scrutiny processes within the framework) will require PPCs to have to show when a NTK was actually posted, in future, because they fail to even show it was sent at all, at the moment.PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD2 -
I really wonder if ParkingEye use the same company but we will have to remember to ask people with 'late NTKs' to ask in their SAR!I think PE used Whistl at one stage?Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .
I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.
Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street2
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