CCJ set aside - help with prospects and consent

orange_dog

Hello everyone,

I would greatly appreciate any input and advice regarding 2 CCJs I have just discovered against my name.
I have just received a notice of debt recovery from DCBL regarding an unpaid CCJ which I have no knowledge of. I have subsequently checked the trust registry and found an additional CCJ against my name (from coincidently the same parking company - but for separate locations). I have confirmed these with the county court business centre.

CCJ #1
Date of contravention - 29th January 2019
Date of judgement - 8th August 2019
A physical PCN was issued at the time (the driver was visiting a friend at their apartment) however the friend was given verbal confirmation by the management company/concierge that the ticket was cancelled. Unfortunately I do not think there is a paper trail for this.

CCJ #2
Date of contravention - 7th July 2019
Date of judgement - 10th December 2019
No physical PCN issued.
Issued as I was moving into my new accommodation - they have even photographed the note in the window saying that I am moving in and to contact me on my telephone number!

All correspondence was sent to my old address as per the V5C (temporary while I was a student). I left this address in July 2018. I had not updated my V5C when changing address - I for whatever reason believed the vehicle was registered to my parents address as it was originally in my fathers name and registered there. Therefore I never received any correspondence from the court. 

I am still able to review the photos from the contraventions on the PPCs website and I do not think there is reasonable nature to defend the claim from a signage point of view (as they are clearly obvious in the photos).

My question is would it be reasonable/likely successful if I was to contact the PPC now and ask for consent to set aside the judgements if I agree to pay any associated costs and the amount as ordered by the CCJ?
- As I understand it it would still however be at the discretion of the judge but more likely to be successful with consent correct?
- By doing this would it then affect my ability for an application to set aside without consent?

I suspect that an application without consent will be unsuccessful due to the fact it was my fault I had not updated the vehicle keeper details so feel that set aside with consent is the best option as I am desperate to get this set aside for mortgage applications.

Really appreciate any help/responses!

Coupon-mad

Which PPC?  It makes a difference,

My question is would it be reasonable/likely successful if I was to contact the PPC now and ask for consent to set aside the judgements if I agree to pay any associated costs and the amount as ordered by the CCJ?

Why would you do that?

As I understand it it would still however be at the discretion of the judge

Why do you plan to pay and go for a discretionary set aside, when you are likely to get a MANDATORY SET ASIDE due to the old address being used?

I suspect that an application without consent will be unsuccessful due to the fact it was my fault I had not updated the vehicle keeper details

Wrong.  We've never seen one not allowed.  The burden was on them to contact you and ascertain your correct address and they even had your phone number and could have contacted you by text or phone and found you in one minute flat:

they have even photographed the note in the window saying that I am moving in and to contact me on my telephone number!

D_P_Dance

Have you complained to your MP?

orange_dog

@Coupon-mad thanks I really appreciate the input!
Its VCS (Vehicle Control Services Ltd)

My predominant concern is to have the CCJ set aside for mortgage purposes and was under the impression I would not be successful in a set aside without consent due to incorrect address (as this was my responsibility to update the V5C)  and I was unsure about how realistic my prospects are successfully defending the claim (which is understand is potentially one of the requirements for a discretionary set aside). 

From reading the CPR and the more laypersons versions on other websites I did not think I would be eligible for a mandatory set aside as I have not satisfied 12.3(1-3) of the CPR?

Unfortunately the telephone number was only available to them in CCJ#2 (after CCJ#1 was made).

Sorry - to clarify you believe that I would be eligible for a mandatory set aside based on the fact everything was sent to the old address (which I had failed to update - I actually only updated this in March 2021)? As the burden of proof is on them to find my current address (as in my mind they have contacted me on the "official" address I had provided to the DVLA).

Apologies for the numerous questions I'm just trying to ascertain where I stand.

@D_P_Dance no but I will be - this is completely outrageous! 

Redx

Correct , they should have traced the current address due to the time lag , nothing to do with you not updating the DVLA V5C details , that issue is between you and the DVLA ( plus the claimant PPC cannot access DVLA details more than once in the first 6 months anyway)

Read the explanations in this other thread

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6264169/ccj-old-address-for-pcns-partner-received-need-set-aside-removed-from-credit-file-asap#latest

orange_dog

@Redx thanks for the link
My case is slightly different in that VCS are IPC AOS members and both judgements are within 7 months of the parking event (They specifically state 12 months in the newest AOS code of practice - as Castle mentioned in the other thread) and unfortunately the IPC make no mention of making efforts to trace you if no responses to NTK etc. are made.

Looking back at the dates VCS actually had reasonable evidence from July 2019 that I had moved address - as in the photos for CCJ#2 there is a note stating I am moving into the flat along with my telephone number! This was obtained 1 month and 1 day BEFORE the issues of the judgement of CCJ#1 (August 2019)

So as @Coupon-mad has outlined in the previous thread I should apply for a set aside under CPR 13.2 with CPR 13.3 as a safety net, including a witness statement and draft order correct?

Could I clarify a few more things?
1) Is it correct that the  £255 to have the CCJ set aside will potentially be awarded back to me if I am successful at defending the claim (and not just successful at having the CCJ set aside?)
2) I should contact VCS now asking them to consent to a set aside (giving them 7 days to respond), otherwise proceed to send N244 without consent (and I will send a SAR to VCS)
3) Am I able to combine the process for the 2 separate CCJs (as it's the same PPC) or will it remain as two separate processes? I suspect the answer is no for this?

Thank you all again!

Coupon-mad

Sorry - to clarify you believe that I would be eligible for a mandatory set aside based on the fact everything was sent to the old address...

Yes. We deal with these every week, every day in fact!  And almost everyone has a CCJ due to not updating their V5C.  That's irrelevant because it doesn't remove the burden on any Claimant to take steps to check before issuing a claim, that the address they have is serviceable.  And old DVLA address can never be assumed to be serviceable months later.  DVLA addresses are notoriously unreliable in fact, due to the DVLA's failure to change V5Cs when people send in their driving licences to change addresses. 

The whole system stinks and IMHO breaks the law (the DVLA breach the GDPR/ DPA 2018, in my view, by failing to update all datebases when a driving licence address changes for a person that they KNOW is the same 'data subject' relating to a V5C).  However that rant may not apply to you if you didn't change your driving licence address, so forget that particular bugbear of mine, if it's not your situation.

Indeed, a month before judgment #1 was sought, this company knew your phone number and photographed it AND knew that you'd moved somewhere else!  That is, assuming both events involved the same car.  They knew you were the same data subject the minute they got the same DVLA data in July 2019 as related to the claim that they'd wrongly served...or were ABOUT to serve!

It is highly likely that the first claim form was also dated in July 2019.  I'd ring the CCBC and ask that question - date of CLAIM not just date of JUDGMENT.  It could be an eye-opener, if it was filed AFTER they'd taken that photo of a note on the same car, telling them that you'd moved house. Can't get much clearer...and they are required to join the dots if it's clearly the same data subject as a person they are about to sue.

 (which I had failed to update - I actually only updated this in March 2021)?

So what, same as all the cases we see - LITERALLY EVERY CASE! 

Yes you should have updated it but this omission is very common and it's a matter for the DVLA, not a parking firm.  They should have undertaken a simple trace, costs under 30p per unit using Experian. 

As the burden of proof is on them to find my current address

Yes.

 (as in my mind they have contacted me on the "official" address I had provided to the DVLA).

So what?  That is not OK, it is not enough to support the filing of a claim months later. They all do this, and the Ministry of Justice has recognised the role of parking firms as the main cause of CCJs to wrong addresses:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/action-to-make-the-process-fairer-on-debt-rulings

https://consult.justice.gov.uk/digital-communications/default-county-court-judgments-2/supporting_documents/defaultcountycourtjudgmentsconsultation.pdf

This article is a few years old but well-written by a person who knows that this issue is primarily due to parking firms:

https://justbeagle.com/news/The+latest+MOJ+statistics+reveal+dangerous+levels+of+CCJs+from+private+parking+companies

Coupon-mad

Could I clarify a few more things?
1) Is it correct that the  £255 to have the CCJ set aside will potentially be awarded back to me if I am successful at defending the claim (and not just successful at having the CCJ set aside?)

Yes but usually it's ordered at the first hearing, the set aside hearing.   It has nothing to do with the PCN defence hearing, really.

2) I should contact VCS now asking them to consent to a set aside (giving them 7 days to respond), otherwise proceed to send N244 without consent (and I will send a SAR to VCS)

Yes you should follow that path as it looks most reasonable.  Why not also robustly point out that they KNEW you'd moved and knew your phone number and place of residence (if not the flat number), before they even filed their claim (get the claim date from the CCBC, I reckon it will be end of July...).  If so and it involved the same car then they had no excuse, they KNEW you were the same data subject they were about to sue. 

For that reason you have a strong hand and could ask them to set the CCJ aside by consent, cancel the PCN claims altogether and pay the £100 fee.   This has value to VCS because otherwise you will file a N244 for £255 x 2 and will seek your full fees and costs for attending more than one hearing to resolve the issue that can be put right by VCS themselves, for £100 x 2.

3) Am I able to combine the process for the 2 separate CCJs (as it's the same PPC) or will it remain as two separate processes? I suspect the answer is no for this?

No, you have to do them both but ask VCS to pay for it, is my advice.  If they filed a claim in late July, knowing what they knew, then filed another claim later on, still knowing what they knew, then they can pay the set aside fees.  That's my take on it.

You'd have to word it robustly and state why your suggested Draft Consent Order has value for them because otherwise you will tell the Judge about their wholly unreasonable conduct and will counterclaim if they persist with the PCN claims.

Send them a Draft Consent Order to sign!  There is a good one on here that a PPC signed last week, agreeing to pay £510 to a person (2 x CCJ full set aside fees) and cancelling the PCNs by consent.

orange_dog

@Coupon-mad
Thanks so much - when I received the letter this afternoon I thought there was no way I was going to be able to fight this and now I have a plan which I feel confident about! very much appreciated. It was indeed the same car with the same registered keeper.
I will get onto it and keep this thread updated - no doubt there will be more questions!
To consent and cancel the PCNs would be the dream - very very happy foe that person!!
Thanks Again

Coupon-mad

I think you hold a strong suit.  Even stronger if the CCBC tell you that the claim was filed AFTER this PPC knew that you'd moved.

orange_dog

Hi everyone, 
First of all - I contacted CCBC and indeed CCJ#1 claim was submitted 17/07/2019 - 10 days after they have photographed my car with a note that I had moved!
I am working on my draft order to send with my N244 but also to VCS limited. This is what i have thus far:

XXXXXXXXX COUNTY COURT

Claim No. XXXXXXXX

BETWEEN:

VEHICLE CONTROL SERVICES LIMITED

Claimant

– and –

Defendant

XXXXXXXXXX

_________________________________

DRAFT ORDER
_________________________________

Upon reading the defendant’s application dated XX/XX/2021

It is ordered that:

1. The judgment dated 08/08/2019 be set aside.

2. The Claimant do pay the Defendant’s costs of this application on an indemnity basis, if the claimant consents to the draft order they will pay the costs of £100 on an indemnity basis.

3. Unless the Claimant serves a copy of the Claim Form on the Defendant by 4pm on XX/XX/2021 the claim will be struck out without further order.

4. If the Claimant serves the claim form as directed in paragraph 3 the Defendant shall file and serve a defence by 4pm XX/XX/2021

5. All enforcement be put on hold pending the outcome of the application.

6. Should the court reserve costs in the case as an alternative to paragraph 2, such costs of this application will become payable by the claimant if the claimant discontinues it's claim.
-------

I have a few questions
1) In the template provided by henrik777 (i think I have been through alot of threads) paragraph 2 states claimant shall pay costs on an indemnity basis - I'm not sure what this means and whether I should be stating that or standard costs?
2) In the draft order which I am sending with the N244, do I leave the dates in paragraph 3 and 4 as xx/xx/21 or is there a set date I should be inputting?
3) If I am sending this draft order to VCS, should I accompany it with the following letter:

Name

Address

 

Company Name

Company Address

 

Date

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

I hereby write to you to inform you that I will by applying for a mandatory set aside of two CCJs which you have filed against me under CPR13.2. Namely:

xxxxxxxx in relation to parking notice VCSxxxxx

xxxxxxxx in relation to parking notice VCSxxxxx

Attached is the proposed Draft Order which I will be sending along with N244.

The following outlines why it is in your best interest to consent to the draft order and cover all costs:

1)      The defendant never received any paperwork or correspondence from yourself.

2)      It has been shown that you have sent all correspondence to an old address, vacated in 2018.

3)      It is believed that you have made no reasonable attempt to trace the correct address in order to inform the keeper of these charges

4)      It is proven, from evidence taken by the claimant, that you had reason to believe I had moved address, provided by photographs of the vehicle in question with a clearly displayed note AND TELEPHONE NUMBER stating the driver was moving in to apartment X. BOTH claims filed against myself were done so AFTER you had photographed said note. Therefore, without hearing any correspondence from myself, in addition with evidence you may have been contacting the wrong address, the claimant had every opportunity to contact the keeper but chose not to.

5)      It is evident this court hearing will be set aside based on the above facts. Persistence with the PCN claims will result in a counterclaim from myself outlining the wholly unreasonable conduct of the claimant which has resulted in 2 unlawful CCJs being placed on my file.

 

You have 7 days to provide a response to this letter. After that I will be proceeding to set aside without consent and as such you will be liable for £255 per CCJ in addition to any counterclaim and indemnity costs.

 

Regards,

xxxxx xxxxxxxx

4) Can I send exactly the same draft order (with specifics changed) for both CCJs?

5) After 7 days has elapsed if I haven't heard anything from VCS, Do I call and make payment of £255 per CCJ to the CCBC and then send the N244/draft order/witness statement/skeleton defence ?

After this and completion of my N244 form (below) I will begin work on my witness statement. 

Any help from anyone would be really really appreciated!!!