waiting to hear from HR on Friday

frogga

yes he had a long letter, they made no mention about future employment, and they defo dont want him back!

Undervalued

frogga said:

Also just checking thsat if he got the part time job, he would still be entitled to his full 12 weeks at full pay?

Probably not I'm afraid.

Either he is completely signed off sick for these 12 weeks or he has a fit note that says he can work subject to adjustments.

If they can't (or won't) meet the adjustments then they can tell him to go home sick. In which case they will have to pay him in full as he is in his notice period (as previously discussed at length).

I think working elsewhere during those 12 weeks, unless the employer gives him specific permission, would be a red rag to a bull and put him on very dodgy ground. If it was during some of the same hours when he would normally be working for the current firm he would be making himself unavailable to work. Obviously if they were feeling magnanimous the firm could give him permission but that doesn't seem likely!

It is technically possible for somebody with two jobs to be off sick from one and fit for the other. An obvious example would be somebody with a part time labouring job and a part time office job. With, say, a bad back they may be fine to do the office job but completely unable to labour.

To be honest I would be careful, get a sick note from the doctor for the 12 weeks and continue to claim ESA. Getting full pay, which they will eventually have to give him, doesn't prevent contribution based ESA being paid (unless I am out of date).
 

Undervalued

General_Grant said:

frogga said:

Also just checking thsat if he got the part time job, he would still be entitled to his full 12 weeks at full pay?

Yes.  His current employer has to pay his full pay for the notice period, whether or not he has another job.

Yes but he cannot work for another company during the hours he would normally be working for this employer during those 12 weeks unless they give him specific permission.

In saying that I am assuming he is being given 12 weeks notice that he will be dismissed on a day in August?

If he is being dismissed as of today but getting 12 weeks pay in lieu of notice then he can work for who he pleases.

frogga

ok, the letter says 12 weeks notice, so his last day is Jul 27th and last pay is August 6th, although it didnt say how much or if indeed any pay, just last pay packet on 6th August. He has written an email to ask for permission to accept the other job. Another one so handy may not come along again? Also, he WANTS to work for them, it is them saying that he can't due to his needs. He does need to work though eventually and if he doesnt accept this part time job, once August 6th comes round, he will have nothing. His GP has said he is fit for part time work with other conditions about no heavy lifting.

In a bit of a pickle now as I trust both of you who have said conflicting answers. Undervalued you have said he cannot work for someone else while on notice, but General Grant has said he can. I guess the key is the permission?

xxxx

Undervalued

frogga said:

ok, the letter says 12 weeks notice, so his last day is Jul 27th and last pay is August 6th, although it didnt say how much or if indeed any pay, just last pay packet on 6th August. He has written an email to ask for permission to accept the other job. Another one so handy may not come along again? Also, he WANTS to work for them, it is them saying that he can't due to his needs. He does need to work though eventually and if he doesnt accept this part time job, once August 6th comes round, he will have nothing. His GP has said he is fit for part time work with other conditions about no heavy lifting.

In a bit of a pickle now as I trust both of you who have said conflicting answers. Undervalued you have said he cannot work for someone else while on notice, but General Grant has said he can. I guess the key is the permission?

xxxx

Yes, with permission it is fine.
Be vary careful of doing so without, as it could easily jeopardise his notice pay. Theoretically his current firm could say "we will find you some part time work during those 12 weeks that complies with your medical restrictions" that they are quite entitled to do.

frogga

but he has asked for that and they said no...

frogga

They have just replied. They will not allow him to work elsewhere while he is on 'garden leave'. He will not be given his P45 until 6th August. If he gets a job with anyone else they will release him from the 12 weeks with no more pay.  So, hopefully another suitable job will come along once August is here, but either way he isn't going to lose that 12 weeks pay.

There is pretty much nothing more to say now, other than thank you all very much from the bottom of my heart. I first posted about this issue several weeks ago. I have had nothing but excellent help and advice. I had no idea that he would be entitled to any money, and becuase of you, we will now recieve 12 weeks full pay.  Mr Frog is absolutely chuffed to nuts. He is a little concerned about having cabin fever and being bored, so I very helpfully wrote him a long list of jobs to do around the pond.  He is thrilled, although he is hiding that quite well.

I hope that all those of you who helped in any way, no matter how small, even if just to offer good vibes, will feel very pleased with yourselves as you are all good people who took the time to help strangers without ever making me feel like we were just pond life.

Frogga and MR Frog xxxx

frogga

Undervalued said:

To be honest I would be careful, get a sick note from the doctor for the 12 weeks and continue to claim ESA. Getting full pay, which they will eventually have to give him, doesn't prevent contribution based ESA being paid (unless I am out of date).
 

Oh yes, one more thing, is that right Undervalued? Can he still claim the ESA?  Even though now he'll be getting his wages?

Undervalued

frogga said:

Undervalued said:

To be honest I would be careful, get a sick note from the doctor for the 12 weeks and continue to claim ESA. Getting full pay, which they will eventually have to give him, doesn't prevent contribution based ESA being paid (unless I am out of date).
 

Oh yes, one more thing, is that right Undervalued? Can he still claim the ESA?  Even though now he'll be getting his wages?

As I understand it, providing he has a sick note from his doctor then yes he can. Contribution based ESA is (was) purely based on his medical condition making him unfit for work.

However it is 12 years or more since I had anything to do with this. At the time ESA was new and had just replaced the old incapacity benefit.

Again, unless it has changed, at some point in the first few months of getting ESA he will be called for a medical assessment by the DWP's doctor or nurse. They use (used) a scoring system and were looking at the person's fitness to do any type of work, not just their current job. So at that point his ESA may well be stopped. If however it continues then he will no longer need sick notes from his doctor but will be called for further medicals from time to time. Obviously it makes sense to delay going for the medical assessment as long as is allowed. I think you could rearrange the appointment then send once only with any reasonable excuse. 

You can appeal a ESA refusal with your own medical evidence and a significant number of appeals do succeed.

Undervalued

frogga said:

They have just replied. They will not allow him to work elsewhere while he is on 'garden leave'. He will not be given his P45 until 6th August. If he gets a job with anyone else they will release him from the 12 weeks with no more pay.  So, hopefully another suitable job will come along once August is here, but either way he isn't going to lose that 12 weeks pay.

That at least is clear cut and a position they are entitled to take, particularly if they are calling it garden leave. In theory he could be called in at any point during the "garden leave" and be asked to do anything that he is medically fit to do, He remains an employee until his leaving day and continues to accrue holiday. 

They can't of course call him in to work if he is signed off sick by his doctor.

They can instruct him to take the accrued holiday during his garden leave (but obviously can't call him in to work when he is on holiday).  Don't remind them though as if they forget to tell him to take the holiday they will have to pay him for it after he leaves!

During the 12 weeks (and for three months after his leaving day) you can consider if there is a valid claim to be made for unfair dismissal, because they failed to make adjustments that would have been reasonable!!!