14 years on - no probate, no change on land registry, no record of will. Solicitor's failings

Sibbers123

Where do I start!?

My late grandfather passed away in 2007. At the time my grandmother, mum and brother-in law appointed a solicitor (a friend of an accountant they used) to obtain probate and deal with the will. Recently we obtained the land registry details of a piece of land that my late grandfather left in his will to my mother, but the land is still in my late grandfathers name. This obviously needs to be changed - how would his be achieved?

To change the land registry details, we would need, amongst other things, a grant of probate. Therefore, I looked at the register of probate that have been granted and discovered probate was never granted. 

We have tried to track down a copy of the will to no avail. 

Our ultimate aim is to ensure the land registry is corrected ASAP and we are wondering what the best way to achieve this is? My widowed grandmother is still with us. Do we just engage a local solicitor? Will they be able to help? 

Any help greatly appreciated.

naedanger

Where is the orginally appointed solicitor? I think the first step is to speak to him and secure the will.

Sibbers123

naedanger said:

Where is the orginally appointed solicitor? I think the first step is to speak to him and secure the will.

We have tried. We have asked the solicitor that was meant to handle probate as well as the solicitor where the will was originally stored. Neither have it. The solicitor's who stored the will say it was requested (but didn't record by whom!). The solicitor who dealt with 'probate' had the will as they changed the land registry on my grandmothers main residence but they are denying they have it... Where does this leave us?

naedanger

Are those who would benefit under the intestate rules (but lose out under the terms of the will) be willing to honor the terms of the will? This might just be your grandmother if the estate is quite small but could include your grandfather's children.

Did your grandfather live in England?

Was your grandfather the sole owner of the property?

Sibbers123

naedanger said:

Are those who would benefit under the intestate rules (but lose out under the terms of the will) be willing to honor the terms of the will? This might just be your grandmother if the estate is quite small but could include your grandfather's children.

Did your grandfather live in England?

Was your grandfather the sole owner of the property?

The estate is reasonably small and everyone is happy for the terms of the will to be kept.
The parcel of land in question is held as tenants in common with my other grandfather who is still alive.

naedanger

Sibbers123 said:

naedanger said:

Are those who would benefit under the intestate rules (but lose out under the terms of the will) be willing to honor the terms of the will? This might just be your grandmother if the estate is quite small but could include your grandfather's children.

Did your grandfather live in England?

Was your grandfather the sole owner of the property?

The estate is reasonably small and everyone is happy for the terms of the will to be kept.
The parcel of land in question is held as tenants in common with my other grandfather who is still alive.

Two good pieces of news. It isn't contentious and there is a living owner.

I would speak to a new solicitor with a view to do the following: As there is a living owner I believe you don't need probate to transfer your late grandfather's share of property into the living owner's name. Then ask him to gift your late grandfather's share of the property to your mother. This assumes you trust the other grandfather. If your other grandfather has a lot of assets you may need to consider potential future inheritance tax liabilities that may arise on his death.

Of course the solicitor may suggest something else. But the fact it won't be contentious removes a potentially huge problem.

xylophone

The solicitor who dealt with 'probate' had the will as they changed the land registry on my grandmothers main residence but they are denying they have it... 

Was your  late grandfather the sole proprietor of the marital home (the main residence) or was it owned as joint tenants/tenants in common?

If it was held in your grandfather's sole name, then it could not have been transferred to your grandmother unless a Grant of Probate had been obtained.

Marcon

Sibbers123 said:

Where do I start!?

My late grandfather passed away in 2007. At the time my grandmother, mum and brother-in law appointed a solicitor (a friend of an accountant they used) to obtain probate and deal with the will. Recently we obtained the land registry details of a piece of land that my late grandfather left in his will to my mother, but the land is still in my late grandfathers name. This obviously needs to be changed - how would his be achieved?

To change the land registry details, we would need, amongst other things, a grant of probate. Therefore, I looked at the register of probate that have been granted and discovered probate was never granted. 

We have tried to track down a copy of the will to no avail. 

Our ultimate aim is to ensure the land registry is corrected ASAP and we are wondering what the best way to achieve this is? My widowed grandmother is still with us. Do we just engage a local solicitor? Will they be able to help? 

Any help greatly appreciated.

I'd start with a formal complaint against the original solicitor if you are sure they are at fault. Be prepared for the possibility the response may be that your grandmother, mother and BIL never actually supplied the solicitor with the will...

Land_Registry

As naedanger posts if the land is registered in joint names and one of those has died then probate is not required. The land does not form part of the deceased’s estate as the legal (not beneficial) ownership has passed to the surviving registered owner. 

I’d recommend seeking legal advice as to what options exist and then decide next steps. 

If that’s already been decided then the surviving owner can transfer to themselves and the new joint owner   https://help.landregistry.gov.uk/app/answers/detail/a_id/125