Defence - VCS & Elms Claim

dk2k

Hello,

I have received a claim form from VCS and Elms Legal relating to a PCN from six years ago (not quite statue barred!) for allegedly failing to display a permit in a vehicle in which I was the registered keeper. The driver is known to the claimant.

I have spent lots of time using the forum and reading the excellent advice and resources. I'm extremely grateful to the countless others who have taken time to support those with their own defences. I have completed AOS on 29th April and am preparing my defence. I have put together the template defence for the usual £60 penalty and wonder if you would be so kind to critique my points 2 and 3 below? I've spent so long on this that I think I'm getting myself a little confused between the defence and WS stage. Apologies for all the redactions!

2. It is admitted that the Defendant was the registered keeper of the vehicle in question between [ ] and [ ]. The Defendant was employed as a [ ] with [ ] from [ ] to [ ], whose offices are located at [ ]. During his period of employment, the Defendant was provided with a parking permit and assigned a parking bay at [ ]. The Claimant interchangeably uses [ ] and [ ] as the location for the alleged ‘breach’. It remains unclear as to where this 'breach' is alleged to have taken place.

3. The Claimant’s signs have vague/hidden terms and a mix of small font, such that they would be considered incapable of binding any person reading them under common contract law, and would also be considered void pursuant to Schedule 2 of the CRA. Consequently, it is the Defendant’s position that no contract to pay an onerous penalty was agreed by the driver.

KeithP

What is the Issue Date on your County Court Claim Form?


Is this a continuation from your earlier thread?
( I note that that thread is closed, but just posted the link for reference).

D_P_Dance

Have you complained to your MP?

Le_Kirk

A defence is a series of technical/legal arguments that open the door to a later witness statement (WS) that you use to tell the story (a narrative) of what happened on the day and subsequently and to submit your evidence.  Your point #3 is probably covered in the defence template.  You might like to explain that the claimant, on the PCN, letter before claim and the claim form has used different locations for the parking event , making it unclear where ..........
You might like to state that all the time (every time) the car was parked in its allocated location, the permit provided by the employer was displayed.
[The permit and a witness statement from the employer could be provided at WS time.]

KeithP

dk2k said:

 The driver is known to the claimant.

How come?

In the first reply on your earlier thread @Quentin wrote:

Take care not to admit that you were the driver!

beamerguy

I have received a claim form from VCS and Elms Legal relating to a PCN from six years ago (not quite statue barred!) for allegedly failing to display a permit in a vehicle in which I was the registered keeper.

A very good indicator that desperation by VCS has set in .... going back nearly 6 years.

VCS has punted around other legals who all failed them.  Elms is their kissing cousin

Tell me, what have Elms signed a statement of truth to ...... a fake £60 extra and how do they account for this   ..  very important ?

Snakes_Belly

beamerguy said:

I have received a claim form from VCS and Elms Legal relating to a PCN from six years ago (not quite statue barred!) for allegedly failing to display a permit in a vehicle in which I was the registered keeper.

A very good indicator that desperation by VCS has set in .... going back nearly 6 years.

VCS has punted around other legals who all failed them.  Elms is their kissing cousin

Tell me, what have Elms signed a statement of truth to ...... a fake £60 extra and how do they account for this   ..  very important ?

Thought that they had dispensed with Elms. They must be desperate if they are going back this far. What is the interest figure?

This is not some small contractor. This company employs paralegals. You have to question why it has taken this long to start the court process.

They cannot expect a defendant to remember the facts from six years ago. 

Redx

2 should be the first sentence and either admit or deny being the driver , or don't know if not known

The rest of that paragraph with the background information should be 3

3 should be 4

If you are at the defence stage , you are months away from the witness stage and court

We hope you have done the AOS online plus emailed a SAR to the DPO at VCS

Post the issue date from the CCBC claim form below , plus the AOS date too

beamerguy

Snakes_Belly said:

beamerguy said:

I have received a claim form from VCS and Elms Legal relating to a PCN from six years ago (not quite statue barred!) for allegedly failing to display a permit in a vehicle in which I was the registered keeper.

A very good indicator that desperation by VCS has set in .... going back nearly 6 years.

VCS has punted around other legals who all failed them.  Elms is their kissing cousin

Tell me, what have Elms signed a statement of truth to ...... a fake £60 extra and how do they account for this   ..  very important ?

This is not some small contractor. This company employs paralegals. You have to question why it has taken this long to start the court process.

 

Sorry Madam Snake, I disagree .... a small set up in an office as exposed by BBC Watchdog.
Their portfolio of car parks means little, We don't see paralegals apart from JB employed by the SRS group. 

Elms is confirmed to be part of SRS ....... the case in Nottingham where Elms told the D they had a CCJ against them for the ticket ..... IT WAS A LIE .... The judge trashed Elms and the lady rep did a wobbly and the D asked where was the connection ... SRS was the answer.   ??? WHOOPS.
The lady rep was last seen screaming down the street on the phone ..... no doubt to SRS

Parking Eye have legals in store which they use and when they pass to debt collectors like DCBL we know that nothing will happen ..... DCBL are still to wake up that they are being used and abused ?

The SRS group have used BWLegal with a very high failure rate.   The SRS group then tried DCBL, fingers crossed they will do the business ... they failed again

The SRS group tried a DIY and failed

The penny has never dropped with the SRS group ... fake it and lose.
JB should sit SRS down to explain that the scam is no longer viable.

A very sad situation and I doubt SRS will ever understand how making money really works

dk2k

Thanks all for the (quick) responses.

@KeithP - Yes, it's the same one. Although there has never been an admission of who the driver was, it was implied in a communication to the parking company. It was common practice at the time that if an employee received a PCN, the parking company would cancel it upon appeal if they could prove they were employed at a premises on the business park. I will include this in my defence. Issue date of the claim was 27th April.

@D_P_Dance - I haven't complained yet. Are you aware of any punchy templates? Otherwise I'll put something together but the templates here are brilliant!

@Redx - SAR sent to VCS!

@Le_Kirk - You are correct. I had inadvertently copied #13. Thanks for the explanation. Please find updated defence as below;

2. It is admitted that the Defendant was the registered keeper of the vehicle in question between [ ] and [ ]. The Defendant was employed as a [ ] with [ ] from [ ] to [ ], whose offices are located at [ ]. During his period of employment, the Defendant was provided with a parking permit and assigned a parking bay. Every time the Defendant’s car was parked in its allocated parking space, the permit provided by the employer was in the vehicle.

3. The Claimant has a history of contradictory and inaccurate car parking enforcement at this location. The Claimant interchangeably uses [ ] and [ ] as the location for the alleged ‘breach’. It remains unclear as to where this ‘breach’ is alleged to have taken place as the Claimant has used different locations on the PCN, Letter Before Claim and Claim Form. Furthermore, it was common practice when the Defendant was employed at this location, for colleagues to routinely have PCN’s cancelled on appeal, if they could prove that they were employed at a premises at this location. This was not offered in this scenario and the Defendant believes this to be unfair.

KeithP

dk2k said:

Issue date of the claim was 27th April.

dk2k said:

I have completed AOS on 29th April...

With a Claim Issue Date of 27th April, and having filed an Acknowledgment of Service on 29th April, you have until 4pm on Thursday 27th May 2021 to file your Defence.

That's over three weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence and it is good to see you're not leaving it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look at the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Don't miss the deadline for filing a Defence.