Wealth Preservation Funds - Do you use them? Current Views?

hallmark

I own some RIT, PNL, CGT and Ruffer.  Of the 4, RIT has performed by far the worst, so much so that I'll probably topup soon.

My not that sophisticated approach is to drip into things that seem reasonably dull and sensible then topup the ones that perform worst).  I know there's a whole argument to be had on backing your winners vs your losers but for the moment at least I'm in the latter camp.

masonic

hallmark said:

I own some RIT, PNL, CGT and Ruffer.  Of the 4, RIT has performed by far the worst, so much so that I'll probably topup soon.

My not that sophisticated approach is to drip into things that seem reasonably dull and sensible then topup the ones that perform worst).  I know there's a whole argument to be had on backing your winners vs your losers but for the moment at least I'm in the latter camp.

Rebalancing in terms of topping up assets that have been underperforming (and in some cases trimming those that have outperformed) your portfolio average is a common strategy to buy low and sell high. Seems a sound decision to me.

Albermarle

hallmark said:

I own some RIT, PNL, CGT and Ruffer.  Of the 4, RIT has performed by far the worst, so much so that I'll probably topup soon.

My not that sophisticated approach is to drip into things that seem reasonably dull and sensible then topup the ones that perform worst).  I know there's a whole argument to be had on backing your winners vs your losers but for the moment at least I'm in the latter camp.

I think RIT is not really a WP fund, although it is often mentioned as one. As you have seen from the recent significant drops in value.

On the other hand it could be a good buy trading at a 17% discount, when the historic average is  around zero.

ChilliBob

It's a strange coincidence, I was looking at this last night curious as to how these funds have stood up.

I noticed CGAR had lost 3.6%, compared to a loss of 1.7 for a bog standard global index, (Fidelity world P for example).

Looking over 1 year the global index was flat, or a positive 0.6% index (Fidelity P again) vs CGAR being down - 1%.

3 Yr you're talking 12.5% for CGAR vs 32.9% for fidelity. 

I'm aware these are two entirely different beasts, but one is intended to protect wealth, true, it has less volatility over those periods but yeah, food for thought. 

Albermarle

ChilliBob said:

It's a strange coincidence, I was looking at this last night curious as to how these funds have stood up.

I noticed CGAR had lost 3.6%, compared to a loss of 1.7 for a bog standard global index, (Fidelity world P for example).

Looking over 1 year the global index was flat, or a positive 0.6% index (Fidelity P again) vs CGAR being down - 1%.

3 Yr you're talking 12.5% for CGAR vs 32.9% for fidelity. 

I'm aware these are two entirely different beasts, but one is intended to protect wealth, true, it has less volatility over those periods but yeah, food for thought. 

A global index priced in Pounds Sterling, has benefitted from the weak Pound. If you take this out of the equation, then it would have lost significantly more.

A_T

CGT, CGAR and PNL have benefited greatly from holding unhedged US treasuries. If they'd been holding mostly UK bonds or bonds hedged to sterling things would not be looking so good.

Mothman

A_T said:

CGT, CGAR and PNL have benefited greatly from holding unhedged US treasuries. If they'd been holding mostly UK bonds or bonds hedged to sterling things would not be looking so good.

True, but overall CGT, CGAR asssets are currency neutral i.e. 50%gbp /50%foreign currencies. Not sure about PNL,Trojan but would be surprised if there view is much different.

hallmark

RIT down 7% in a day (a pretty big fall for this kind of fund).  I suspect down to this:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/investing/shares/wealth-preservation-trust-poised-suffer-big-falls/

ChilliBob

Blimey, that's a fair size drop! Perhaps a good entry point?! 

Alistair31

Not quite RIP for RIT but…ouch!