SEISS 5 30 April at 1:15PM in Coronavirus Support and Help 7 replies 423 views

selfemployedPT

I’m very confused about the 5th grant

how do I know if I’m eligible?
Will the 30% reduction in turnover be a comparison between 19/20 and 20/21 or between 20/21 and 20/22. Or even 19/20 and 21/22.

Also does turnover refer to gross income aside from grants to date? I’m trading but with tiny income currently, although my income in 19/20 before the pandemic was fairly low as well for various reasons compared to the years before. 

Jeremy535897

Per ICAEW:

"SEISS 5

The fifth grant covers May to September 2021. It has been set at 80% of three months’ average trading profits capped at £7,500 for those whose turnover has reduced by 30% or more.

Those with a turnover reduction of less than 30% will receive a grant based on 30% of three months’ average trading profits, capped at £2,850. Average trading profits will be calculated as for SEISS 4.

Details of how the turnover test will work may not be available for some time, but the Tax Faculty understands that the comparison is likely to be tax year 2020/21 compared with 2019/20 (this may need to be varied where taxpayers do not prepare accounts to 31 March or 5 April).

The grants are based on three months trading profits despite covering a five-month period. HMRC has indicated that this approach is intended to tailor support as the economy opens up. It also notes that employers will be required to contribute to furloughed employees’ income in July, August and September, and that the self-employed can work and claim whereas no claim under the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme is possible for hours worked. 

The SEISS applications portal is expected to open for the fifth grant in late July"

SEISS grants would not fall within any ordinary definition of turnover, unless there is a specific statement that they do.

middlingditch

...the Tax Faculty understands that the comparison is likely to be tax year 2020/21 compared with 2019/20 (this may need to be varied where taxpayers do not prepare accounts to 31 March or 5 April).

I am puzzled by this, too - I know the details aren't out yet but I keep seeing references to the turnover test being based on 20/21.

I don't understand why/how they can base support ostensibly for May-August 2021 on your situation 6Apr20-5Apr21 - surely you need to show your turnover is down, or you expect it to be, during the *actual* period May-August 2021 rather than going back to what your turnover was in the year to Apr 2021?? If it's all about your turnover having been down in 20/21 as compared with 19/20 then it's just a sort of additional retrospective grant, no matter what your situation in May-Aug.

And out of interest are they going to compel people claiming SEISS 5 to submit their 20/21 self-assessment tax returns before applying?

I write as one hoping not to have to claim SEISS 5 at all because work might come back to normal, but suspecting it will still be down on where it "should" be if coronavirus hadn't happened.

Jeremy535897

There are no other details at the moment.

bigmickyy

I think the biggest thing to focus on just now is for self employed people to focus on their game! You have PT in your name so I assume your a personal trainer. The next grant is months away. The biggest thing you should be focusing on is getting clients in the door. Becoming the best in your area! Therefore not depending on grants. Don’t get me wrong they have been so helpful to millions of us, it’s been a horrible year. However it’s time for us to get back to semi normal and start to fight for our careers and get the money coming in. I think for the majority of self employed, once they do their tax return, there is going to be more than a 30% reduction in earnings!
Therefore qualifying for said grant. I think however the main focus should be getting back to focusing on earning and grinding a living!

justwhat

SEISS 5 looks like it could end up being more complicated than any of the previous grants. And the reduction /loss test is going  to be hard for some to work out.

2021 tax return deadline is not until Jan 2022. So many will have to have there tax return on hand to work out if they are eligible for SEISS 5. (as the test seems very black/white)

For SOME having accounts done earlier than normal MAY cause an extra financial burden. 

mattyprice4004

bigmickyy said:

I think the biggest thing to focus on just now is for self employed people to focus on their game! You have PT in your name so I assume your a personal trainer. The next grant is months away. The biggest thing you should be focusing on is getting clients in the door. Becoming the best in your area! Therefore not depending on grants. Don’t get me wrong they have been so helpful to millions of us, it’s been a horrible year. However it’s time for us to get back to semi normal and start to fight for our careers and get the money coming in. I think for the majority of self employed, once they do their tax return, there is going to be more than a 30% reduction in earnings!
Therefore qualifying for said grant. I think however the main focus should be getting back to focusing on earning and grinding a living!

Absolutely this. 

I’m grateful for the help I’ve had, but I’m pushing 110% to grow the business I'm involved with now. 

selfemployedPT

bigmickyy said:

I think the biggest thing to focus on just now is for self employed people to focus on their game! You have PT in your name so I assume your a personal trainer. The next grant is months away. The biggest thing you should be focusing on is getting clients in the door. Becoming the best in your area! Therefore not depending on grants. Don’t get me wrong they have been so helpful to millions of us, it’s been a horrible year. However it’s time for us to get back to semi normal and start to fight for our careers and get the money coming in. I think for the majority of self employed, once they do their tax return, there is going to be more than a 30% reduction in earnings!
Therefore qualifying for said grant. I think however the main focus should be getting back to focusing on earning and grinding a living!

I do agree with the sentiment and I have tried to diversify my business plan somewhat. However I’m based in the middle of a city centre where about 80% of my business came from corporate staff based in the offices surrounding the gym. Those offices are now still literally empty as most are still working from home. This is not an issue for PTs based in domestic areas who are for the most part absolutely raking it in with those who are working from home. 

Prior to the first lockdown I had about 18 new contracts signed and ready to go which I had to render void, so the grants were very much needed for myself. To this day, none of those people have set foot back in the gym I work out of, so again il most likely need to rely on grant 5 when the time comes. I need to know if il be eligible ASAP as I have a mortgage to pay for after all.