Can I salvage this appeal? Vantage Point - Brighton - One Parking Solution

jolly_cabbage

I come asking with many pleases, if anyone would be willing to help me out on how to approach this. I would be forever greatful.

Please bare with some of the ranting nature of this thread... apologies in advance, I haven't really been able to vent on this since it happened.

So, the on hold appeals appear to have been restarted again on POPLA as I've just recieved an email from them regarding an appeal I made back in October from a dispute over not purchasing the ticket fast enough. Despite the fact that we purchased it as fast as we possibly could once finding a space, not leaving the premesis until pre-paid and also the ticket had 49 minutes left on it when we left the car park. Safe to say, since day one of recieving this notice, I was livid as - if anything - in a fair world, they should owe me money back for the time not spent in their s****y car park. Just check their Google reviews... which I wish I had known about before hand, we actually were never meant to park there, it was an in the moment rapid google maps find as our original parking plan had gone rather sideways on the day.

I stumbled across - no idea why I didn't look into it at the time, stress & nerves I guess - the MSE parking newbies guide and read through it. Its a bit late now to really action any of it, so I was wondering if the kind folk on here could provide some specific advice to my situation.

Anyway, I've been given 21 days from today (29/04/2021) to submit any futher evidence via replying to said email if I wish to do so. Here is the email in question:

Good Morning,

We are starting to consider appeals again

In November, POPLA decided to adjourn appeals because of the difficulties experienced by motorists and operators during the COVID-19 pandemic. Government restrictions are starting to lift, and we have decided to start considering appeals again.

We are writing to you today because your appeal was put on hold and it is important you have a chance to submit any case details or evidence you wish to submit that you haven’t already. We already have the details that you have submitted to us during the appeal process, but you can add to or amend these details if you wish. 

Within the next 21 days, would you please respond to this email and either:

·         confirm you are happy with the case you have submitted; or

·         provide any additional grounds of appeal or evidence you wish for us to consider.

We will start your case once we receive either of these. If we do not hear from you within the next 21 days, then your case will be started, and you won’t be able to submit any new grounds of appeal or evidence.

We look forward to hearing from you.

Regards,

POPLA Team

So, wind the clock back a few months to October 2020, when a lovely trip out to Brighton was ruined by a s***hole of a parking company. I recieved the PCN around late October for failure to pay within the contracted time of entering the carpark. Not duration or anything like that, just not paying fast enough. This was due to finding a space, which took a few minutes, then looking on how to pay. There was no signal in the carpark to use their JustPark app integration, so we were fumbling around trying to find signal to download, register and pay on the app on both of our phones. Eventually we managed to, by standing at the rear of the carpark and paying for the parking. We overpaid and bought plenty of time, with 49 minutes still remaining on stay by the time we left.

Still, they thought that this absolutely vile act of not buying a ticket 2 minutes faster than the universe would allow that day justifies an egregiously large £100 fine, for parking that was in fact overpaid, even taking into account their ANPR times we still paid for more parking than we were ever on site.

Foolishly, as I said before, I didn't think at the time to research how to approach this first online - which was stupid I know. But a part of me was naive enough to believe that the world to some regard still respected common sense and decency, and remembered that we are all bloody well human. So I went a head and replied the best way I thought I could.

To be honest, I'm pretty sick of this process at the minute and just want it to come to a close, but I think its vile that these companies should get £100 when I've paid for more than enough of my stay. Overpaid in fact. This practice just feels like it should be without question illegal, its predatory and wrong, especially when I've paid for the service - and then some - all ready. A fine for payment just seems morally and inexplicably corrupt.

I've attached all correspondance in a following post in this thread, with associating evidence, with personal details redacted. Please let me know ASAP if you find un-redacted information.

Feel free to wince, point and laugh, and tell me what a dumb !!!!!! I've been at this approach. Looking back through it now, I can see glaring mistakes made from what the Newbies guide says. I'm fully expecting to have to raise the middle finger salute and pay the £100 at this point, and promptly vomit from the lack of morality to it all and this rancid process and all those involved in its creation and subsequent enforcement.

If anyone would be willing to help me out on how to approach this, I would be forever greatful.

Thankyou

Le_Kirk

Just read the NEWBIE sticky third post, it is all about POPLA appeals.  Use all the available reasons, with your particular circumstances at the beginning.  

jolly_cabbage

Le_Kirk said:

Just read the NEWBIE sticky third post, it is all about POPLA appeals.  Use all the available reasons, with your particular circumstances at the beginning.  

Thanks, I've read through it, but wanted some specialist opinions on the above, as I'm not really sure how to apply what I've done already given the opportunity I've been presented to add more to the appeal.

Not trying to kick up a fuss, it's all a bit overwhelming and felt reaching out for some assistance would be my best bet.

Fruitcake

The actual appeal text in your post is far too small for me to read. That's the only part of your appeal we need to see.

nicestrawb

You are being scammed by a company that have an apalling record of doing this kind of thing. I've spent 3 years fighting them and won in the end. Their appeals process and POPLA are part of the scam as POPLA are funded by them. The only person qualified and impartial enough to reach a sensible decision is a judge. My thoughts are that you are virtually guaranteed victory in a court if you defend it properly. But if you want to avoid all the hassle, why not get onto the land owner first? I think the owner of this carpark would be very interested to know that paying customers are being treated in such a way by the company they're employing to manage it for them. And if not, then you have free reign to find out as much as possible about them and tell the world about it...

Oh, and it stressed me out to start with. Over time it just became comical and became obvious I had nothing to fear. Don't worry.

Fruitcake

Use the opportunity to add further points to your appeal.

Frustration of contract. The operator invited motorists to pay by 'phone app but failed to ensure that all areas of the car park could receive a serviceable 'phone signal. The operator knew, or should have known that mobile 'phone service was inadequate and should have highlighted this in their signage, advising motorists where within the car park a suitable signal could be found.
Alternatively, motorist should clearly be warned that a serviceable signal is not available, and they should leave the car park in order to make payment before returning to park.

Add the following points from the appeal templates you will find in the third post of the NEWBIES.

No landowner authority
No standing to issue charges
Inadequate signage.

jolly_cabbage

nicestrawb, very good effort and result! Not sure if I have that length of fight in me though... 😅

But the thought that I legally paid for parking, more parking than I actually used meaning the service was paid for in full and then some, and at no damage to the company or entities, and I still recieved a £100 fine, just makes my blood boil. Wish I could do a charge back on the original parking money, they shouldn't get to double dip.

Fruitcake

jolly_cabbage said:

Just read through your post @nicestrawb, very good effort and result! Not sure if I have that length of fight in me though... 😅

But the thought that I legally paid for parking, more parking than I actually used meaning the service was paid for in full and then some, and at no damage to the company or entities, and I still recieved a £100 fine, just makes my blood boil. Wish I could do a charge back on the original parking money, they shouldn't get to double dip.

Lawfully, not legally. This is a civil case, not a criminal one.

It is not a fine.

"and at no damage to the company or entities, "

That got killed off in 2015 by the ridiculous and notorious Beavis case heard in the Supreme Court.

Umkomaas

It is not a fine.

Even POPLA is calling it a 'Parking Fine' - see the section where the motorist can upload image evidence. 

I must admit I've never seen the full range of questions asked by POPLA before, some are totally irrelevant, some others are disguised sneaky man-traps. The sooner they're ditched in the trash can, the better. 

nicestrawb

jolly_cabbage said:

Just read through your post @nicestrawb, very good effort and result! Not sure if I have that length of fight in me though... 😅

to be fair the 3 years was my choice lol.... You could nip this in the bud fairly easily but at the end of the day, this lot have a reputation for going all the way to court and forcing people to defend themselves, only dropping it at the last minute once you've submitted a witness statement. I coudn't be arsed with court so went after the land owners and got it cancelled in the end.

jolly_cabbage

Hahahaha, to be fair they are fighting the good fight for sure.

You could nip this in the bud fairly easily

If you don't mind me asking, how so? Paying the fine? 😅