Still no refund for Summer 2020 flights

csmith848

Hi,

I'm having a bit of nightmare still trying to sort out unsuccessful holiday plans from 2020, as I'm sure many people are!

On February 2nd 2020 (i.e. before the COVID-19 pandemic), I purchased flights from London to New York for my girlfriend and I with Virgin Atlantic (outbound 12th August 2020).

A few months later it became clear that we were not going to be able to go, so I contacted Virgin Atlantic, who told me to contact my travel insurance (Virgin Money), who told me that I could not file a claim until after the date of the flights.

So, we prepared everything and waited.. the day after we should have flown out, I filed my claim, providing documents such as evidence of the governmental restrictions on travel to the US from the UK (not permitting us to fly) and written proof from Virgin Atlantic that we did not take the flight and that they were unable to provide us with a refund (because of our type of ticket).

Months passed, eventually I received a reply, which effectively passed the buck and asked me to provide proof that my payment provider (AMEX) would not take financial responsibility.
I put in my Section 75 claim with AMEX, along with proof (such as the documents mentioned above, as well as all my communication with Virgin Atlantic and Money).

Again, months passed..
I finally received a response from AMEX saying they would not approve my claim because there was no evidence that the flight was cancelled, despite sending them a PDF letter from Virgin Atlantic saying exactly that (i.e. that the flights were cancelled and my girlfriend and I did not fly).
I've disputed their response, re-sending that letter, and asked for more information on why that does not meet their criteria, but i don't think i'll hear back any time soon.

Is there anything I can do to speed this up and stop this financial-buck-passing?

We're approaching almost a year since I originally contacted Virgin Atlantic 

Thanks in advance,

Calum

Upsidedownandaround

If the flights flew then you are not entitled to a refund from either Virgin or Amex. Amex is asking for proof your flight was cancelled by Virgin (not you didn't fly) because otherwise it is nothing to do with them. So you are wasting your time as you have no valid S.75 claim

It sounds like your insurer is fobbing you off as they are the ones liable if your insurance terms cover you. You should progress it with them by making it clear you have not been able to recover from your credit card as the flight was not cancelled by Virgin and then progress it via  a complaint  and the ombudsman if you still do not have any success.

csmith848

Upsidedownandaround said:

If the flights flew then you are not entitled to a refund from either Virgin or Amex. Amex is asking for proof your flight was cancelled by Virgin (not you didn't fly) because otherwise it is nothing to do with them. So you are wasting your time as you have no valid S.75 claim

It sounds like your insurer is fobbing you off as they are the ones liable if your insurance terms cover you. You should progress it with them by making it clear you have not been able to recover from your credit card as the flight was not cancelled by Virgin and then progress it via  a complaint  and the ombudsman if you still do not have any success.

Thanks for the reply.
As mentioned, the letter from Virgin does say that the flights were cancelled.

Upsidedownandaround

By you or by them?

csmith848

Upsidedownandaround said:

By you or by them?

By them - see section of their letter attached (cropped for security)

Upsidedownandaround

To be clear your credit card company has the same liability as Virgin under S.75 for breach of contract. If Virgin cancelled your flight then you are entitled to a refund from them and your credit card company is jointly liable if they fail to provide this.

If you cancelled the flight because you couldn't fly and your ticket was non-refundable and the flight went you are not entitled to a refund from Virgin and therefore Amex is not liable either as there is no breach of contract.

Why do you think Amex should refund you for the cost of the flights?

csmith848

Upsidedownandaround said:

To be clear your credit card company has the same liability as Virgin under S.75 for breach of contract. If Virgin cancelled your flight then you are entitled to a refund from them and your credit card company is jointly liable if they fail to provide this.

If you cancelled the flight because you couldn't fly and your ticket was non-refundable and the flight went you are not entitled to a refund from Virgin and therefore Amex is not liable either as there is no breach of contract.

Why do you think Amex should refund you for the cost of the flights?

Because, as you said, the provider of the goods/service did not fulfil their 'end of the deal' (so to speak) - is that not what a section 75 claim is about?

To be clear, disputing Amex's reply was more out of principle than anything else - I can't understand why they said there was no evidence the flight was cancelled when those exact words are written in a letter from Virgin Atlantic.

Upsidedownandaround

Yes it is. But in your opening post you also said

"providing documents such as evidence of the governmental restrictions on travel to the US from the UK (not permitting us to fly) and written proof from Virgin Atlantic that we did not take the flight and that they were unable to provide us with a refund (because of our type of ticket)."

Maybe I'm misunderstanding but that implies the reason you didn't fly was because of US entry restrictions and you didn't take the flight rather than the flight was cancelled.

Why did you not just ask Virgin for a refund if you are saying the flight was cancelled?

csmith848

Upsidedownandaround said:

Yes it is. But in your opening post you also said

"providing documents such as evidence of the governmental restrictions on travel to the US from the UK (not permitting us to fly) and written proof from Virgin Atlantic that we did not take the flight and that they were unable to provide us with a refund (because of our type of ticket)."

Maybe I'm misunderstanding but that implies the reason you didn't fly was because of US entry restrictions and you didn't take the flight rather than the flight was cancelled.

Why did you not just ask Virgin for a refund if you are saying the flight was cancelled?

Sorry, to be clear, we only obtained the letter from Virgin Atlantic confirming that the flight was cancelled after originally putting in my insurance claim.

(Out of interest here, if no one is permitted to fly from one country to another, do flights still go ahead and we just have empty planes in the air 😂.. wouldn't surprise me in this day and age.)

Virgin Atlantic just say that the ticket is non-refundable, unfortunately.

ratechaser

csmith848 said:

Upsidedownandaround said:

Yes it is. But in your opening post you also said

"providing documents such as evidence of the governmental restrictions on travel to the US from the UK (not permitting us to fly) and written proof from Virgin Atlantic that we did not take the flight and that they were unable to provide us with a refund (because of our type of ticket)."

Maybe I'm misunderstanding but that implies the reason you didn't fly was because of US entry restrictions and you didn't take the flight rather than the flight was cancelled.

Why did you not just ask Virgin for a refund if you are saying the flight was cancelled?

Sorry, to be clear, we only obtained the letter from Virgin Atlantic confirming that the flight was cancelled after originally putting in my insurance claim.

(Out of interest here, if no one is permitted to fly from one country to another, do flights still go ahead and we just have empty planes in the air 😂.. wouldn't surprise me in this day and age.)

Virgin Atlantic just say that the ticket is non-refundable, unfortunately.

Non-refundable if you cancel. But if they have confirmed that they cancelled the flight, then a refund is due (otherwise that could be a nice little money spinner for them eh?).

csmith848

ratechaser said:

csmith848 said:

Upsidedownandaround said:

Yes it is. But in your opening post you also said

"providing documents such as evidence of the governmental restrictions on travel to the US from the UK (not permitting us to fly) and written proof from Virgin Atlantic that we did not take the flight and that they were unable to provide us with a refund (because of our type of ticket)."

Maybe I'm misunderstanding but that implies the reason you didn't fly was because of US entry restrictions and you didn't take the flight rather than the flight was cancelled.

Why did you not just ask Virgin for a refund if you are saying the flight was cancelled?

Sorry, to be clear, we only obtained the letter from Virgin Atlantic confirming that the flight was cancelled after originally putting in my insurance claim.

(Out of interest here, if no one is permitted to fly from one country to another, do flights still go ahead and we just have empty planes in the air 😂.. wouldn't surprise me in this day and age.)

Virgin Atlantic just say that the ticket is non-refundable, unfortunately.

Non-refundable if you cancel. But if they have confirmed that they cancelled the flight, then a refund is due (otherwise that could be a nice little money spinner for them eh?).

😆 I thought the same!..

I'll try again.. it will inevitably take another few months to hear back, so (as in my original post) just trying to see if there is anything i can do to cut this game of roundabout.