Buying a house for parents to live in ..

AnotherJoe

CarolynSinclair said:

As the official owner has died, the family want to sell it. I hadn’t thought of it being sold ‘with tenants’ that gives a bit of hope. The agent has just informed me of the situation, and said there’s no initial rush, 3 months flexible. I asked for no letter of intent until next week as we only broke the news to them yesterday, and didn’t want them alerted without being told in person. 

That's very generous of them to halve the legal notice an then forget the need to go to court.

Your folks won't, in practical terms, need to move out for a least a year.

Is there any possibility this bungalow woudl be affordable? If so you coudl make the executor an offer bearing in mind the time and hassle they would save and money (if your folks paid rent up to completion, plus no EA fees)

Regards buying them a place, another way to structure it is they buy it but you give them a loan to help out, with a charge against the property in your name and a proper asigned greement drawn up making the loan "official". That way, if and when its sold, you have first claim on your loan ahead of council or grasping relatives.. And also no second home SDLT for you/them to pay in that case as its them buying.

Grumpelstiltskin

CarolynSinclair said:

GDB2222 said:

CarolynSinclair said:

Tiglet2 said:

CarolynSinclair said:

Bit of a dilemma. Inlaws have been happily renting a bungalow. It’s sadly now being sold. Getting alternative rental bungalow for (elderly) inlaws is proving impossible. We had a thought to club together and buy it. Inlaws putting in £50K (cash) thats their top spend and us £100k through mortgage or trying to raise funds through cashing in pension/increasing our existing mortgage.  Has anyone done this. Will it be classed as our second home for tax implications even if we don’t live there? How do we stop other sibling claiming half the money of our share when finally sold ..... Thank you for any advise. 

OP, how long have your parents been renting the bungalow?

2 and a half years 

Can I ask how old they are, and whether they would like to stay where they are?

Also, how robust are they mentally? It’s all very good to say that they can possibly win a court case, but that’s all rather stressful. It’s okay for a 30 year old, but less so for someone in their 80s.

They are late 80’s. Would love to stay there, but we would not put them through any stress, and the I don’t want any either! 

Right explain to them that whatever the landlord says they are not going to be thrown out of the bungalow in 3 months time.

There are many legal hoops the landlord has to jump through which at every stage have to be done 100% legally correct.

The first one being a notice to quit which has to be 200% correctly done that's why I suggested asking for the notice in writing.

Hopefully the landlord will realize at that stage they must follow the law.

davilown

Don’t forget that your parents don’t have to agree to any viewings either. If the EA has keys to the property, go round and change the locks (keep the old ones to put back when they eventually leave).

MaryNB

Grumpelstiltskin said:

CarolynSinclair said:

GDB2222 said:

CarolynSinclair said:

Tiglet2 said:

CarolynSinclair said:

Bit of a dilemma. Inlaws have been happily renting a bungalow. It’s sadly now being sold. Getting alternative rental bungalow for (elderly) inlaws is proving impossible. We had a thought to club together and buy it. Inlaws putting in £50K (cash) thats their top spend and us £100k through mortgage or trying to raise funds through cashing in pension/increasing our existing mortgage.  Has anyone done this. Will it be classed as our second home for tax implications even if we don’t live there? How do we stop other sibling claiming half the money of our share when finally sold ..... Thank you for any advise. 

OP, how long have your parents been renting the bungalow?

2 and a half years 

Can I ask how old they are, and whether they would like to stay where they are?

Also, how robust are they mentally? It’s all very good to say that they can possibly win a court case, but that’s all rather stressful. It’s okay for a 30 year old, but less so for someone in their 80s.

They are late 80’s. Would love to stay there, but we would not put them through any stress, and the I don’t want any either! 

Right explain to them that whatever the landlord says they are not going to be thrown out of the bungalow in 3 months time.

There are many legal hoops the landlord has to jump through which at every stage have to be done 100% legally correct.

The first one being a notice to quit which has to be 200% correctly done that's why I suggested asking for the notice in writing.

Hopefully the landlord will realize at that stage they must follow the law.

I still think they should do nothing. If the agent assumes they'll move out in 3 months well then they may not issue the S21 until they realise her in-laws aren't moving out as expected. S21 gets issued, then they're up to 9 months from now.
Her in-laws don't have to ask or say anything, as long as they don't hand their own notice in, the law is on their side and says it's a 6 month notice. They should already know where they stand once they read up on ending tenancies (Carolyn, contact Shelter for advice). It's not in their interest to get the ball rolling.

If Carolyn or her in-laws check the notice and see something is wrong (e.g. they never got a gas safety certificate) they should say nothing. Agency/landlord got it wrong, their problem. 6 months later, notice expires but her in-laws don't have to move out because the notice was invalid to begin with. Then they're up to 15 months (assuming the aforementioned 3 month delay applies and the Covid related notice period hasn't been changed).

GDB2222

CarolynSinclair said:

GDB2222 said:

CarolynSinclair said:

Tiglet2 said:

CarolynSinclair said:

Bit of a dilemma. Inlaws have been happily renting a bungalow. It’s sadly now being sold. Getting alternative rental bungalow for (elderly) inlaws is proving impossible. We had a thought to club together and buy it. Inlaws putting in £50K (cash) thats their top spend and us £100k through mortgage or trying to raise funds through cashing in pension/increasing our existing mortgage.  Has anyone done this. Will it be classed as our second home for tax implications even if we don’t live there? How do we stop other sibling claiming half the money of our share when finally sold ..... Thank you for any advise. 

OP, how long have your parents been renting the bungalow?

2 and a half years 

Can I ask how old they are, and whether they would like to stay where they are?

Also, how robust are they mentally? It’s all very good to say that they can possibly win a court case, but that’s all rather stressful. It’s okay for a 30 year old, but less so for someone in their 80s.

They are late 80’s. Would love to stay there, but we would not put them through any stress, and the I don’t want any either! 

That’s very understandable. 

Assuming that in-laws are looking for a £150k house and have £50k themselves, one way that they can finance the balance of £100k is through a home reversion plan. At their ages, that should work financially, and they could do that without you contributing anything at all.

The essence of it is that they wouldn’t have to pay any rent for the rest of their lives, but most of the value of the bungalow would go to the reversion owner when they die or move to a care home.

They would need to speak to a broker that deals in home reversions. 

https://www.which.co.uk/money/pensions-and-retirement/youre-retired-working-on-benefits-equity-release/equity-release/home-reversion-axpnw5h21ut0

CarolynSinclair

AnotherJoe said:

CarolynSinclair said:

As the official owner has died, the family want to sell it. I hadn’t thought of it being sold ‘with tenants’ that gives a bit of hope. The agent has just informed me of the situation, and said there’s no initial rush, 3 months flexible. I asked for no letter of intent until next week as we only broke the news to them yesterday, and didn’t want them alerted without being told in person. 

That's very generous of them to halve the legal notice an then forget the need to go to court.

Your folks won't, in practical terms, need to move out for a least a year.

Is there any possibility this bungalow woudl be affordable? If so you coudl make the executor an offer bearing in mind the time and hassle they would save and money (if your folks paid rent up to completion, plus no EA fees)

Regards buying them a place, another way to structure it is they buy it but you give them a loan to help out, with a charge against the property in your name and a proper asigned greement drawn up making the loan "official". That way, if and when its sold, you have first claim on your loan ahead of council or grasping relatives.. And also no second home SDLT for you/them to pay in that case as its them buying.

Thank you for replying. Yes, it is this bungalow we’re basing our calculations on to try and buy. That makes total sense about a loan but with a charge. 

CarolynSinclair

MaryNB said:

Grumpelstiltskin said:

CarolynSinclair said:

GDB2222 said:

CarolynSinclair said:

Tiglet2 said:

CarolynSinclair said:

Bit of a dilemma. Inlaws have been happily renting a bungalow. It’s sadly now being sold. Getting alternative rental bungalow for (elderly) inlaws is proving impossible. We had a thought to club together and buy it. Inlaws putting in £50K (cash) thats their top spend and us £100k through mortgage or trying to raise funds through cashing in pension/increasing our existing mortgage.  Has anyone done this. Will it be classed as our second home for tax implications even if we don’t live there? How do we stop other sibling claiming half the money of our share when finally sold ..... Thank you for any advise. 

OP, how long have your parents been renting the bungalow?

2 and a half years 

Can I ask how old they are, and whether they would like to stay where they are?

Also, how robust are they mentally? It’s all very good to say that they can possibly win a court case, but that’s all rather stressful. It’s okay for a 30 year old, but less so for someone in their 80s.

They are late 80’s. Would love to stay there, but we would not put them through any stress, and the I don’t want any either! 

Right explain to them that whatever the landlord says they are not going to be thrown out of the bungalow in 3 months time.

There are many legal hoops the landlord has to jump through which at every stage have to be done 100% legally correct.

The first one being a notice to quit which has to be 200% correctly done that's why I suggested asking for the notice in writing.

Hopefully the landlord will realize at that stage they must follow the law.

I still think they should do nothing. If the agent assumes they'll move out in 3 months well then they may not issue the S21 until they realise her in-laws aren't moving out as expected. S21 gets issued, then they're up to 9 months from now.
Her in-laws don't have to ask or say anything, as long as they don't hand their own notice in, the law is on their side and says it's a 6 month notice. They should already know where they stand once they read up on ending tenancies (Carolyn, contact Shelter for advice). It's not in their interest to get the ball rolling.

If Carolyn or her in-laws check the notice and see something is wrong (e.g. they never got a gas safety certificate) they should say nothing. Agency/landlord got it wrong, their problem. 6 months later, notice expires but her in-laws don't have to move out because the notice was invalid to begin with. Then they're up to 15 months (assuming the aforementioned 3 month delay applies and the Covid related notice period hasn't been changed).

Thank you for this advice. I’ll be contacting Shelter tomorrow, and with a slightly clearer head now realise what our rights are. Very grateful for your input. 

MaryNB

MaryNB said:

Grumpelstiltskin said:

CarolynSinclair said:

GDB2222 said:

CarolynSinclair said:

Tiglet2 said:

CarolynSinclair said:

Bit of a dilemma. Inlaws have been happily renting a bungalow. It’s sadly now being sold. Getting alternative rental bungalow for (elderly) inlaws is proving impossible. We had a thought to club together and buy it. Inlaws putting in £50K (cash) thats their top spend and us £100k through mortgage or trying to raise funds through cashing in pension/increasing our existing mortgage.  Has anyone done this. Will it be classed as our second home for tax implications even if we don’t live there? How do we stop other sibling claiming half the money of our share when finally sold ..... Thank you for any advise. 

OP, how long have your parents been renting the bungalow?

2 and a half years 

Can I ask how old they are, and whether they would like to stay where they are?

Also, how robust are they mentally? It’s all very good to say that they can possibly win a court case, but that’s all rather stressful. It’s okay for a 30 year old, but less so for someone in their 80s.

They are late 80’s. Would love to stay there, but we would not put them through any stress, and the I don’t want any either! 

Right explain to them that whatever the landlord says they are not going to be thrown out of the bungalow in 3 months time.

There are many legal hoops the landlord has to jump through which at every stage have to be done 100% legally correct.

The first one being a notice to quit which has to be 200% correctly done that's why I suggested asking for the notice in writing.

Hopefully the landlord will realize at that stage they must follow the law.

I still think they should do nothing. If the agent assumes they'll move out in 3 months well then they may not issue the S21 until they realise her in-laws aren't moving out as expected. S21 gets issued, then they're up to 9 months from now.
Her in-laws don't have to ask or say anything, as long as they don't hand their own notice in, the law is on their side and says it's a 6 month notice. They should already know where they stand once they read up on ending tenancies (Carolyn, contact Shelter for advice). It's not in their interest to get the ball rolling.

If Carolyn or her in-laws check the notice and see something is wrong (e.g. they never got a gas safety certificate) they should say nothing. Agency/landlord got it wrong, their problem. 6 months later, notice expires but her in-laws don't have to move out because the notice was invalid to begin with. Then they're up to 15 months (assuming the aforementioned 3 month delay applies and the Covid related notice period hasn't been changed).

Just to expand on what I've said about Shelter - contact them (the one relevant to your in-law's country)  to ensure you fully understand the rules around ending tenancies. 

There are some things that may change what I've said above.

For example, if your in-laws are in Scotland the notice is 3 months if the landlord changes their mind and decides to move into the property instead of selling it. It's 6 months if they're selling the property.

The 6 month notice is a temporary measure so if this drags on make sure you keep an eye out for any changes in law. 

MaryNB

CarolynSinclair said:

MaryNB said:

Grumpelstiltskin said:

CarolynSinclair said:

GDB2222 said:

CarolynSinclair said:

Tiglet2 said:

CarolynSinclair said:

Bit of a dilemma. Inlaws have been happily renting a bungalow. It’s sadly now being sold. Getting alternative rental bungalow for (elderly) inlaws is proving impossible. We had a thought to club together and buy it. Inlaws putting in £50K (cash) thats their top spend and us £100k through mortgage or trying to raise funds through cashing in pension/increasing our existing mortgage.  Has anyone done this. Will it be classed as our second home for tax implications even if we don’t live there? How do we stop other sibling claiming half the money of our share when finally sold ..... Thank you for any advise. 

OP, how long have your parents been renting the bungalow?

2 and a half years 

Can I ask how old they are, and whether they would like to stay where they are?

Also, how robust are they mentally? It’s all very good to say that they can possibly win a court case, but that’s all rather stressful. It’s okay for a 30 year old, but less so for someone in their 80s.

They are late 80’s. Would love to stay there, but we would not put them through any stress, and the I don’t want any either! 

Right explain to them that whatever the landlord says they are not going to be thrown out of the bungalow in 3 months time.

There are many legal hoops the landlord has to jump through which at every stage have to be done 100% legally correct.

The first one being a notice to quit which has to be 200% correctly done that's why I suggested asking for the notice in writing.

Hopefully the landlord will realize at that stage they must follow the law.

I still think they should do nothing. If the agent assumes they'll move out in 3 months well then they may not issue the S21 until they realise her in-laws aren't moving out as expected. S21 gets issued, then they're up to 9 months from now.
Her in-laws don't have to ask or say anything, as long as they don't hand their own notice in, the law is on their side and says it's a 6 month notice. They should already know where they stand once they read up on ending tenancies (Carolyn, contact Shelter for advice). It's not in their interest to get the ball rolling.

If Carolyn or her in-laws check the notice and see something is wrong (e.g. they never got a gas safety certificate) they should say nothing. Agency/landlord got it wrong, their problem. 6 months later, notice expires but her in-laws don't have to move out because the notice was invalid to begin with. Then they're up to 15 months (assuming the aforementioned 3 month delay applies and the Covid related notice period hasn't been changed).

Thank you for this advice. I’ll be contacting Shelter tomorrow, and with a slightly clearer head now realise what our rights are. Very grateful for your input. 

Didn't see this before writing my last post. It goes without saying don't take the agency or landlord's word on anything (or for that matter, the words of randomer on the internet, hence the Shelter recommendation). They've already misled your in-laws. They didn't do anything illegal but it's already clear it's not in their interest to allow your in-laws to stick with their legal rights regarding notice periods. Independent advice is obviously the way to go.

wilfred30

GDB2222 said:

CarolynSinclair said:

GDB2222 said:

CarolynSinclair said:

Tiglet2 said:

CarolynSinclair said:

Bit of a dilemma. Inlaws have been happily renting a bungalow. It’s sadly now being sold. Getting alternative rental bungalow for (elderly) inlaws is proving impossible. We had a thought to club together and buy it. Inlaws putting in £50K (cash) thats their top spend and us £100k through mortgage or trying to raise funds through cashing in pension/increasing our existing mortgage.  Has anyone done this. Will it be classed as our second home for tax implications even if we don’t live there? How do we stop other sibling claiming half the money of our share when finally sold ..... Thank you for any advise. 

OP, how long have your parents been renting the bungalow?

2 and a half years 

Can I ask how old they are, and whether they would like to stay where they are?

Also, how robust are they mentally? It’s all very good to say that they can possibly win a court case, but that’s all rather stressful. It’s okay for a 30 year old, but less so for someone in their 80s.

They are late 80’s. Would love to stay there, but we would not put them through any stress, and the I don’t want any either! 

That’s very understandable. 

Assuming that in-laws are looking for a £150k house and have £50k themselves, one way that they can finance the balance of £100k is through a home reversion plan. At their ages, that should work financially, and they could do that without you contributing anything at all.

The essence of it is that they wouldn’t have to pay any rent for the rest of their lives, but most of the value of the bungalow would go to the reversion owner when they die or move to a care home.

They would need to speak to a broker that deals in home reversions. 

https://www.which.co.uk/money/pensions-and-retirement/youre-retired-working-on-benefits-equity-release/equity-release/home-reversion-axpnw5h21ut0

That won't work because you have to already own your home first.  The home reversion plan company don't buy the house with you.