Quotes for a New Gas Combi Boiler Installation

neilmcl

Leodogger said:

chrisw said:

Run through the questions on Boxt and see what quote that gives which will give you another idea of likely cost. You dont have to enter any personal details.

https://www.boxt.co.uk/

Just went on there but that price includes installation by THEM.    I would want the boiler supplied separately and installed by who I select.  As long as a qualified plumber installs it and it is new out of the box, there should be no problem with the guarantee, otherwise how do plumbers merchants sell boilers to the public.   By the way, we are pensioners and don't have oodles of savings so have to watch the pennies LOL!

Only if the installer registers it, there's no guarantee of them doing that on a boiler the customer supplied.

fezster

neilmcl said:

Leodogger said:

chrisw said:

Run through the questions on Boxt and see what quote that gives which will give you another idea of likely cost. You dont have to enter any personal details.

https://www.boxt.co.uk/

Just went on there but that price includes installation by THEM.    I would want the boiler supplied separately and installed by who I select.  As long as a qualified plumber installs it and it is new out of the box, there should be no problem with the guarantee, otherwise how do plumbers merchants sell boilers to the public.   By the way, we are pensioners and don't have oodles of savings so have to watch the pennies LOL!

Only if the installer registers it, there's no guarantee of them doing that on a boiler the customer supplied.

Presumably the installer will commission the boiler - otherwise it would be illegal to use. The warranty is dependent on the boiler being commissioned by a competent person (usually Gas Safe Registered).

daveyjp

Leodogger said:

Jeepers_Creepers said:

Leodogger said:

Jeepers_Creepers said:

Oh, and a 25kW combi is pants - that's the correct term.

Is there any reason to not go 30kW or possibly even above? Give that some thought :-)

We live in a small 2 bedroomed bungalow with 6 rads, 3 of which are double.   He was the one who recommended a 25i WB boiler.

As you know, a combi boiler heats up your domestic hot water 'instantly' as required. How well it does this - the amount of hot water it can deliver - is directly dependent on the power of the boiler; that '25kW' or '30kW' or even '32kW' is solely available for the hot water, and a 30kW jobbie will give a noticeably better flow than a 25kW model.

The other job of a combi is, of course, to heat your radiators, and here you will find little difference between them. Modern boilers 'modulate' their outputs to match demand, just like you turn down your gas ring to stop the turn your aggressively boiling egg into a gentle simmer. So, the 25, 30 and 32kW combi will turn itself down to suit your 6 rads just fine - once your house heats up, the boiler will gently 'tick over' and even shut off for periods to suit demand.

Do you enjoy your showers? Do you fill baths? A 30kW combi will do both of these much better than a 25kW model.

That's really useful info, I didn't know that !    Thanks, it will obviously now affect which one we choose and from the "BOXT" website suggested above, I put in our details and it also suggested a 30kW boiler so we will probably go for that, even though the plumber didn't suggest it.

Don't guess which size to go for.  It needs to be matched to your cold water flow rate.

Unless you have told Boxt what the rate is they are also guessing.  A 30kw will cost more than a 25 kw boiler of the same model.

jefaz07

Leodogger said:

jefaz07 said:

Leodogger said:

Ant555 said:

We replaced a 20 year old worcester boiler with a Worcester Bosch in 2019.  Cost was £2200 including a magnetic filter, flush of the system and a new wireless room thermostat.

The pipes were not in exactly the same place so they had to do a bit of work there and also the flue through the wall was in a slightly different place so there was a little bit of extra brickwork to make good - brickwork itemised at 45+vat

This was done in 1 day.

I dont know if it was the flush of the system, the power of a new boiler, a bit of both or my imagination but the heat 'radiating' from my rads afterwards was noticeably better.

Hope this helps.

Yes it does, as it gives me an idea of how much work he will have to do.   From what I can see it is a straight forward swap from a Vaillant to a Worcester and as the system has already been flushed, has inhibitor in it, and we had a new wireless programmer a few years ago when we had two rads added and now the flue is secured in the loft, the plumber who did this work this week now knows he doesn't have that work to do and STILL quoted me £2700 to change the boiler.   Just seems to be over the top to me but maybe a plumber can tell me different?

In view of what everyone has said I think it best I get a few quotes in!

Is that thermostat boiler plus complaint as per the new regs? Does it have a condensate? Is the gas run of sufficient size? Is it a vertical flue? Does it need a stand off? 

The manual asks if it’s been flushed to a British Standard, he can’t answer that by saying ‘yes a few years ago’ and the system won’t have inhibitor in it as he will drain it to fit the new boiler. 
Have you factored in the tax he will pay on what he’s earning? 

He will add some money to the bits he supplies you as he’s sourced and ran around and picked them up. That takes time. 

Does Tesco or Asda sell you things for the same price they buy them for? 

There are too many variables to say if it’s a good price or not. 

And 1.5 days for a combi swap is perfectly...a proper power flush is half a day easy. 

That being said, it might be a tad on the high side I of none of these are needed. And I suspect they will be...vertical flues can increase the price quickly. 

For reference I’ve just quoted a job at £2600 for a combi swap, that includes vertical flues,roof flashing, a stand-off and a nest. 

If you read my posts above, the same plumber has just finished standardising the flue up to spec, he flushed the system and knew the boiler was up to spec as he inspected it and said HE could do the combi swap at £2700, he never said there would be any problems, in fact he said just the opposite as he had inspected it as I say, this is why I am questioning the price.   As for him running around for a boiler.   If I can order a boiler online and it can be delivered to my house without any running around, so can he.    

I did read it. Part of me reading it noticed you are getting quoted for a different brand of boiler. So he will have to renew the flue regardless of what he has done with it already. Secondly, the system will need flushed after installation to get rid of old flux amongst other things. So a flush will be needed as part of the benchmark which I’m sure you will want filled in and done correctly so the warranty is honoured. 

This includes new inhibitor too. 

What model is the old Vaillant? Is it condensing? 

The above mentioned aren’t ‘problems’ they’re just what happens when a boiler is installed to regs. 

Yes you probably can get one delivered, so could I. However I go to merchants as if I have any problems I go straight to them and they will rectify immediately. Then there is the other bits he needs, it’s not just a boiler going in. 

jefaz07

Jeepers_Creepers said:

Leodogger said:

Just went on there but that price includes installation by THEM.    I would want the boiler supplied separately and installed by who I select.  As long as a qualified plumber installs it and it is new out of the box, there should be no problem with the guarantee, otherwise how do plumbers merchants sell boilers to the public.   By the way, we are pensioners and don't have oodles of savings so have to watch the pennies LOL!

I think you are misguided if you believe buying the boiler yourself will lead to a cheaper price. A quote of £2.7k would seem to prove that point.

WB comes with - I understand - up to a 10 year warranty (as do some other makes), although there may be some provisos on this like it only applies to certain components like the 'heat engine', or it only covers the cost of parts and you still need to pay labour after 3 years, things like that.

I would expect the 'full extended manufacturers warranty' proviso would also be dependent on the installer also providing the boiler - ie doing everything. But you can confirm this.

This plumber has carried out a few jobs for you to a presumably good standard, so has gained your confidence - cool, that's what you want to find. I would now be hoping, tho', for a 'keen' quote from them for the boiler replacement, and £2.7k doesn't strike me as being that.

It's your call, but I really think you should be asking a couple more local and recommended (with good reputations) GasSafes for their opinions on combi size, their recommendation for the best makes, and for quotes.

£2.7k for a 25kW jobbie? Nah.

(ANY GASSAFES ON HERE?! WILL A VAILLANT FLUE FIT A W-B?!!)

Not under any circumstances 

Leodogger

daveyjp said:

Leodogger said:

Jeepers_Creepers said:

Leodogger said:

Jeepers_Creepers said:

Oh, and a 25kW combi is pants - that's the correct term.

Is there any reason to not go 30kW or possibly even above? Give that some thought :-)

We live in a small 2 bedroomed bungalow with 6 rads, 3 of which are double.   He was the one who recommended a 25i WB boiler.

As you know, a combi boiler heats up your domestic hot water 'instantly' as required. How well it does this - the amount of hot water it can deliver - is directly dependent on the power of the boiler; that '25kW' or '30kW' or even '32kW' is solely available for the hot water, and a 30kW jobbie will give a noticeably better flow than a 25kW model.

The other job of a combi is, of course, to heat your radiators, and here you will find little difference between them. Modern boilers 'modulate' their outputs to match demand, just like you turn down your gas ring to stop the turn your aggressively boiling egg into a gentle simmer. So, the 25, 30 and 32kW combi will turn itself down to suit your 6 rads just fine - once your house heats up, the boiler will gently 'tick over' and even shut off for periods to suit demand.

Do you enjoy your showers? Do you fill baths? A 30kW combi will do both of these much better than a 25kW model.

That's really useful info, I didn't know that !    Thanks, it will obviously now affect which one we choose and from the "BOXT" website suggested above, I put in our details and it also suggested a 30kW boiler so we will probably go for that, even though the plumber didn't suggest it.

Don't guess which size to go for.  It needs to be matched to your cold water flow rate.

Unless you have told Boxt what the rate is they are also guessing.  A 30kw will cost more than a 25 kw boiler of the same model.

I filled in the questionnaire on BOXT and it didn't ask for the cold water flow rate which of course I wouldn't know but obviously the plumber did who put in our radiator as we had a problem with getting enough hot water to the sink in the kitchen (we are in a bungalow which doesn't help), but he adjusted the isolater under the sink and did something on the boiler and now we get really hot water although when the tap is turned on full it is a bit noisy but he said this is the trade off to get more hot water as he thinks the heat exchange plate on the existing 15 yr old boiler is probably clogged up with muck he said and so can't heat the continuous flow of water to get it hot enough.

Leodogger

After reading that we have paid for flushing and inhibitor which we would have to pay for again if we had a new boiler installed, it will delay our decision to get it replaced, otherwise we have wasted our money having it done now.

Jeepers_Creepers

Leo, place a pan or bucket under the cold kitchen (or garden) tap and turn it on FULL. Let it run for 10 seconds. Measure the number of litres produced, and 'times' that by 6.

That will give you 'litres-per-minute'. Report back with your results, please.

Jeepers_Creepers

Leodogger said:

Well actually this plumber just did all that preparatory work today after moving a radiator as we were having a few problems with the heating system, so he did a power flush, put in rust inhibitor and then said that the flue was not strapped in the loft and came to do it today, so all that preparatory work has already been done.    He said our flue was not up to spec and that the previous gas service engineer should have picked it up as it would fail an inspection, which is why he offered to do it.

The plumber did what he was asked; moved a rad, carried out a P/F (I bet the rad had a fair bit of sludge in it?), added inhibitor (it was lack of this wot allowed the sludge to occur) and fully secured the flue in the loft.

That's all 'fair enough' - he did the job required.

Could I ask how long all this took, and how much he charged?

Now he's been asked to quote for a new boiler. It's a shame he bothered to secure the existing flue, and that's gonna have to all come out again and a new one installed in its place.

The P/F was presumably needed, and sludge in a modern combi boiler is bad news - it blocks the secondary exchanger - so that would also need doing anyway.

The quote is probably a little on the high side, but not hugely. As pointed out by someone else, he should really flush the system out on completion anyway to clear away any chemicals or particles from the swap. This also means that the inhibitor he put in will be lost - hey-ho! However, it isn't the most straight-forward of swaps since you have a vertical flue which presumably goes through the roof? What is access like up there?

So, the quote isn't criminal (not like British Gas for example...), but if he suggests the P/F has been done and no further flushing is required, or the system water is fine and the inhibitor in it will do the job, then the quote is looking a bit high again.

Has he fitted a magnetic filter?

Anyhoo, I'd strongly suggest you forget you buying the boiler but instead just obtain two more quotes for complete installs of 30kW Vaillants or Veismanns (or W-B if you wish - they are ok). Then you'll know where you stand with your current plumber.

Leodogger

Jeepers_Creepers said:

Leo, place a pan or bucket under the cold kitchen (or garden) tap and turn it on FULL. Let it run for 10 seconds. Measure the number of litres produced, and 'times' that by 6.

That will give you 'litres-per-minute'. Report back with your results, please.

Why should I do that ?