Buying from landlord

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] said:

A lot of assumptions being made here about the landlord having no hand of value.

But it's hard to foresee a situation where he will wait 24 months for section 21 to progress only to then realise he hasn't served a (valid) notice. More likely he can sell to an investor if you dig in as he plans to sell within a shorter timeframe.

I also note that he placed his expectation in the middle of the range, which is welcome from your perspective, so there may be room for negotiation at around the £138k mark, and by securing the property, you'd have more certainly over your future, probably no need for a survey and I'm guessing the interest on the mortgage will be less than the rent?

Where does it say the landlord had placed his expectation in the middle of the range? The OP says the estate agent has suggested a price of £135k to £140k but the landlord wants more than £140k. That’s not in the middle. 

[Deleted User]

Lover_of_Lycra said:

[Deleted User] said:

A lot of assumptions being made here about the landlord having no hand of value.

But it's hard to foresee a situation where he will wait 24 months for section 21 to progress only to then realise he hasn't served a (valid) notice. More likely he can sell to an investor if you dig in as he plans to sell within a shorter timeframe.

I also note that he placed his expectation in the middle of the range, which is welcome from your perspective, so there may be room for negotiation at around the £138k mark, and by securing the property, you'd have more certainly over your future, probably no need for a survey and I'm guessing the interest on the mortgage will be less than the rent?

Where does it say the landlord had placed his expectation in the middle of the range? The OP says the estate agent has suggested a price of £135k to £140k but the landlord wants more than £140k. That’s not in the middle. 

Sorry thought it said 135 to 145. Might get the eyes tested.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] said:

Lover_of_Lycra said:

[Deleted User] said:

A lot of assumptions being made here about the landlord having no hand of value.

But it's hard to foresee a situation where he will wait 24 months for section 21 to progress only to then realise he hasn't served a (valid) notice. More likely he can sell to an investor if you dig in as he plans to sell within a shorter timeframe.

I also note that he placed his expectation in the middle of the range, which is welcome from your perspective, so there may be room for negotiation at around the £138k mark, and by securing the property, you'd have more certainly over your future, probably no need for a survey and I'm guessing the interest on the mortgage will be less than the rent?

Where does it say the landlord had placed his expectation in the middle of the range? The OP says the estate agent has suggested a price of £135k to £140k but the landlord wants more than £140k. That’s not in the middle. 

Sorry thought it said 135 to 145. Might get the eyes tested.

No worries. If the landlord had suggested meeting in the middle then it would have been a sensible compromise for both and I’d have said, “go for it.”  

saajan_12

AdrianC said:

Tuikhe said:

Lover_of_Lycra said:

Tuikhe said:

Lover_of_Lycra said:

Tuikhe said:

Hi everyone, 
first time posting here.

so we’ve been renting for about 12 years now. My landlord wants to sell and move to Australia. He gave us 6 months notice to leave. We’ve expressed an interest to buy the house in the past and when he mentioned that he wanted to sell ofc we told him we wanted to buy so we won’t have to move...The landlord sent estate agents around who said the house would be worth £135-140k. 

We offered him £135k, he rejected and says he wants to sell it for £140k+. Any tips on negotiating the price/how to about lowering the price slightly. I think he’s wanting 140+ as he knows we are keen to buy. I am thinking of offering £140k as it’s central and  convenient for my parent. 

I agree with @hazyjo. £135k seems a reasonable offer and it means your landlord wouldn’t have a void or have to serve a Section 21 notice. In his shoes I’d be biting your hand off to go and live my new life down under rather than gaffing about for an extra £5k. 

Let him test the water by marketing a property with a tenant in-situ. 

He’s given us notice for 6 months i believe under s.21? 

To be clear your landlord has served a Section 21 giving you 6 months notice that he might then go to court to get a possession order.  Courts that are facing a serious backlog due to covid and there are plenty of things that can invalidate a Section 21 notice.

Read Post 4: Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy? Taken from Tenancies in Eng/Wales: Guides for landlords and tenants at the top of the board.

Thanks for that!! He hasn’t given us a proper s21 notice using the correct form, its just a letter stating when the notice period ends.  

So he hasn't given you s21 notice yet. All he's done is say that he'd like you to move...

Well, two can play hardball.

With what he's given you now, he can join the possession hearing queue, but he WILL get his "notice" handed straight back to him in two years time... If he's not got that right, does he have all the other myriad ducks in a row that could invalidate correctly issued notice...?

So he's either relying on you choosing to play nicely with him, or selling with a sitting tenant.
Or selling to you.

Stand by your £135k.

Yeah, they can.. would OP really want to continue paying rent instead of a cheaper mortgage for 2 years, just to stick it to the LL? Meanwhile another BTL investor might not want to evict the tenant any time soon, so the notice situation etc may not affect them at all. 

HampshireH said:

Just point out the added fees he will pay will be more than the 5k he is asking for so he won't see if anyway if he goes through an agent.

You probably don't need a survey having lived there 12 years as you will know what doesor doesn't need doing.... So you are saving him time there and another buyer getting one an starting to renegotiate.

As you can buy quick as no chan and already in situ

Not really sure I get this attitude.. both sides stand to benefit:
- LL saves void, agent fees (not always), quicker sale
- OP saves rent + mortgage overlap, survey costs, moving costs, quicker sale
So not sure why the LL would only account for their savings and agree to the lower end of the scale. 

I agree someone should suggest meeting in the middle, but LL's expectation of the top end (140k) is just as cheeky as the OP's offer at the bottom end (135k)

[Deleted User]

saajan_12 said:

AdrianC said:

Tuikhe said:

Lover_of_Lycra said:

Tuikhe said:

Lover_of_Lycra said:

Tuikhe said:

Hi everyone, 
first time posting here.

so we’ve been renting for about 12 years now. My landlord wants to sell and move to Australia. He gave us 6 months notice to leave. We’ve expressed an interest to buy the house in the past and when he mentioned that he wanted to sell ofc we told him we wanted to buy so we won’t have to move...The landlord sent estate agents around who said the house would be worth £135-140k. 

We offered him £135k, he rejected and says he wants to sell it for £140k+. Any tips on negotiating the price/how to about lowering the price slightly. I think he’s wanting 140+ as he knows we are keen to buy. I am thinking of offering £140k as it’s central and  convenient for my parent. 

I agree with @hazyjo. £135k seems a reasonable offer and it means your landlord wouldn’t have a void or have to serve a Section 21 notice. In his shoes I’d be biting your hand off to go and live my new life down under rather than gaffing about for an extra £5k. 

Let him test the water by marketing a property with a tenant in-situ. 

He’s given us notice for 6 months i believe under s.21? 

To be clear your landlord has served a Section 21 giving you 6 months notice that he might then go to court to get a possession order.  Courts that are facing a serious backlog due to covid and there are plenty of things that can invalidate a Section 21 notice.

Read Post 4: Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy? Taken from Tenancies in Eng/Wales: Guides for landlords and tenants at the top of the board.

Thanks for that!! He hasn’t given us a proper s21 notice using the correct form, its just a letter stating when the notice period ends.  

So he hasn't given you s21 notice yet. All he's done is say that he'd like you to move...

Well, two can play hardball.

With what he's given you now, he can join the possession hearing queue, but he WILL get his "notice" handed straight back to him in two years time... If he's not got that right, does he have all the other myriad ducks in a row that could invalidate correctly issued notice...?

So he's either relying on you choosing to play nicely with him, or selling with a sitting tenant.
Or selling to you.

Stand by your £135k.

Yeah, they can.. would OP really want to continue paying rent instead of a cheaper mortgage for 2 years, just to stick it to the LL? Meanwhile another BTL investor might not want to evict the tenant any time soon, so the notice situation etc may not affect them at all. 

HampshireH said:

Just point out the added fees he will pay will be more than the 5k he is asking for so he won't see if anyway if he goes through an agent.

You probably don't need a survey having lived there 12 years as you will know what doesor doesn't need doing.... So you are saving him time there and another buyer getting one an starting to renegotiate.

As you can buy quick as no chan and already in situ

Not really sure I get this attitude.. both sides stand to benefit:
- LL saves void, agent fees (not always), quicker sale
- OP saves rent + mortgage overlap, survey costs, moving costs, quicker sale
So not sure why the LL would only account for their savings and agree to the lower end of the scale. 

I agree someone should suggest meeting in the middle, but LL's expectation of the top end (140k) is just as cheeky as the OP's offer at the bottom end (135k)

The landlord wants more than the top end. 

daivid

If there are lots of similar properties nearby the OP should look for sold prices. The landlord wants over the EA's valuation, EAs sometimes over value to get the property on the books (shock horror!), the OP's offer of £135k may be generous and certainly isn't cheeky it would make the sale much easier (and almost certainly cheaper) for the LL.

Its purely anecdotal, but when I was renting my LL offered to sell the house to me as he wanted release the capital. Besides the fact it wasn't the home I wanted long term, he was completely deluded on it's value, though I wasn't going to waste time seeing if he would see sense. For context it was a 5 year old new build on an estate of identikit houses (well 4 options) with a high turnover, the same houses were selling for £20k less than he wanted and the houses one size up for about £5k less.  

dimbo61

You have been renting off this Landlord for 12 years so can you do some research ?
Check on rightmove for sold prices and put in post code and you may find how much he paid for the property!
How good has he been as a Landlord ?
Repairs ? Gas Safe check every year ? Has he got an EICR ? Electric Inspection and Condition Report for the property ?
Does the property have a valid EPC ? Less than 10 years old!
Does it need work ? Kitchen, bathroom etc?
If you purchase the property he gets Rent till the day you buy and no void period.
He does not have to spend money on cleaning, repairs, refurbishment etc as your still living in the house.
£135,000 was a good offer as he is the person wanting to sell.
If he has not got a valid EPC, EICR, GSC and not served a correct S21 it could be months / years before he can evict you

stevenbecca

now he's messed you around your offer has just dropped to 130k 😉

Tuikhe

dimbo61 said:

You have been renting off this Landlord for 12 years so can you do some research ?
Check on rightmove for sold prices and put in post code and you may find how much he paid for the property!
How good has he been as a Landlord ?
Repairs ? Gas Safe check every year ? Has he got an EICR ? Electric Inspection and Condition Report for the property ?
Does the property have a valid EPC ? Less than 10 years old!
Does it need work ? Kitchen, bathroom etc?
If you purchase the property he gets Rent till the day you buy and no void period.
He does not have to spend money on cleaning, repairs, refurbishment etc as your still living in the house.
£135,000 was a good offer as he is the person wanting to sell.
If he has not got a valid EPC, EICR, GSC and not served a correct S21 it could be months / years before he can evict you

The whole house needs work, carpets have seriously worn needs changing. Wallpapers coming off ps the Kitchen fan isn’t working.

he doesn’t have EPC, EICR & GSC to my knowledge. I’ve been bugging him about gas safety he had someone come around and just installed a carbon monoxide detector on my request but not sure if he’s had a property gas safety inspection. This was never done in the 10+  years we’ve been in this house.