Funeral question

Silvertabby

naedanger said:

Silvertabby said:

molerat said:

Mickey666 said:

If the hospital declines to have me then it'll be a hole in the back garden!

Brings back memories of a long running thread on here !

Now you've done it - we'll have newbies asking for the details!

Back on track... If he were to die in hospital, then it would be a relatively simple matter of telling the hospital admin staff that you want THEM to arrange the public health funeral.  The administrator will no doubt try to tell you that it is your responsibility to make the funeral arrangements, but it really isn't.  

Little more complicated if he were to die at home, but only if OP were to be identified/contacted as NOK.  Again, the authorities may put pressure on the OP to pay for a funeral, but they are only doing their job.

OP - you will need to be firm and insist on a public health funeral, as is your right.  

If asked by anyone (hospital administrator, social worker, police etc), the op should simply say he is not arranging the funeral or dealing with any other aspect of his brother's estate. (It is not for the op to find someone else to arrange it. So there is no need for him to ask anyone to do so.)

Yes, but if OP just says that he's not doing anything and walks away, then the hospital administrator etc will waste time and (taxpayers) money by trying to trace other family members who may be willing to pay for the funeral.

Far simpler for OP to say outright that neither he nor anyone else is dealing with the (insolvent) estate or arranging the funeral, and to ask that the administrator etc make the necessary arrangements.

Mickey666

I don't follow the logic of that.

If the hospital administrator is likely to try to trace other family members to pay for the funeral, why would they be likely to take the OP's word that "neither he nor anyone else" is willing to pay?  The OP can only speak for himself, not for anyone else.

RAS

Silvertabby said:

Yes, but if OP just says that he's not doing anything and walks away, then the hospital administrator etc will waste time and (taxpayers) money by trying to trace other family members who may be willing to pay for the funeral.

Far simpler for OP to say outright that neither he nor anyone else is dealing with the (insolvent) estate or arranging the funeral, and to ask that the administrator etc make the necessary arrangements.

According to the OP's initial post, they are the only living relative.

So if the OP advises of that and that brother "wanted to be taken away in an wheelie bin," the administrator is not going to waste time looking for anyone else.

naedanger

Silvertabby said:

naedanger said:

Silvertabby said:

molerat said:

Mickey666 said:

If the hospital declines to have me then it'll be a hole in the back garden!

Brings back memories of a long running thread on here !

Now you've done it - we'll have newbies asking for the details!

Back on track... If he were to die in hospital, then it would be a relatively simple matter of telling the hospital admin staff that you want THEM to arrange the public health funeral.  The administrator will no doubt try to tell you that it is your responsibility to make the funeral arrangements, but it really isn't.  

Little more complicated if he were to die at home, but only if OP were to be identified/contacted as NOK.  Again, the authorities may put pressure on the OP to pay for a funeral, but they are only doing their job.

OP - you will need to be firm and insist on a public health funeral, as is your right.  

If asked by anyone (hospital administrator, social worker, police etc), the op should simply say he is not arranging the funeral or dealing with any other aspect of his brother's estate. (It is not for the op to find someone else to arrange it. So there is no need for him to ask anyone to do so.)

Yes, but if OP just says that he's not doing anything and walks away, then the hospital administrator etc will waste time and (taxpayers) money by trying to trace other family members who may be willing to pay for the funeral.

Far simpler for OP to say outright that neither he nor anyone else is dealing with the (insolvent) estate or arranging the funeral, and to ask that the administrator etc make the necessary arrangements.

My point was just to get across to the op that he is under no obligation to find someone to deal with the funeral. There is no harm in the op saying to the authorities that as far as he is aware there are no family or friends willing to organise the funeral, and as far as he is aware his brother has no assets. My point is he doesn't need to ask them or anyone else to arrange the funeral. 

Your previous post suggested the op may be put under pressure. One way the op can avoid that is to be clear they don't need to have anything at all to do with the arrangements - they don't even need to ask or find someone to make the arrangements.

It is not unknown for people to instruct funeral directors on the mistaken belief that the estate or authorities would pay, only to find out they are personally liable if, for any reason, the estate can't or won't pay.

Mickey666

RAS said:

Silvertabby said:

Yes, but if OP just says that he's not doing anything and walks away, then the hospital administrator etc will waste time and (taxpayers) money by trying to trace other family members who may be willing to pay for the funeral.

Far simpler for OP to say outright that neither he nor anyone else is dealing with the (insolvent) estate or arranging the funeral, and to ask that the administrator etc make the necessary arrangements.

According to the OP's initial post, they are the only living relative.

So if the OP advises of that and that brother "wanted to be taken away in an wheelie bin," the administrator is not going to waste time looking for anyone else.

. . . assuming they believe what they're being told and don't wish to verify it.  After all, it could be a family's way of avoiding paying for a funeral. 

I'm not saying that's the case here, I'm saying that we (or the administrator) simply doesn't know for certain if there is only one living relative.  They only know what they've been told, which may or may not be the truth.

Sea_Shell

Mickey666 said:

RAS said:

Silvertabby said:

Yes, but if OP just says that he's not doing anything and walks away, then the hospital administrator etc will waste time and (taxpayers) money by trying to trace other family members who may be willing to pay for the funeral.

Far simpler for OP to say outright that neither he nor anyone else is dealing with the (insolvent) estate or arranging the funeral, and to ask that the administrator etc make the necessary arrangements.

According to the OP's initial post, they are the only living relative.

So if the OP advises of that and that brother "wanted to be taken away in an wheelie bin," the administrator is not going to waste time looking for anyone else.

. . . assuming they believe what they're being told and don't wish to verify it.  After all, it could be a family's way of avoiding paying for a funeral. 

I'm not saying that's the case here, I'm saying that we (or the administrator) simply doesn't know for certain if there is only one living relative.  They only know what they've been told, which may or may not be the truth.

But surely the "family" has no legal obligation to pay for a funeral, if the deceased themselves have no assets, regardless of their own finances.  Moral, maybe.

What investigation would the authorities carry out before agreeing to arrange a public health funeral.?

Flugelhorn

there is government guidance - interesting as it outlines investigation that may or may not be undertaken

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/public-health-funerals-good-practice-guidance/public-health-funerals-good-practice-guidance

"A local authority may recover, from the estate of the deceased person, the expenses incurred in the provision of a public health funeral. The Act also stipulates that this is recoverable as civil debt by proceedings brought within three years after the sum becomes due. Further information on recouping the costs of the funeral can be found in section 6."