Degree or No Degree to pursue goals?

Savvy_Sue

YorkshirePud_TW said:

Finally, please don't just go and correct people via your pedantic paragraph as although it's correct and many people would pick that sort of thing up......I worked my !!!!!! off to get to where I am having mild-dyslexia (not outrageously hard to combat but does not help at all) you may upset someone accidently. All my work is done via phone/computer to try and eliminate as many mistakes as possible - if I could marry spellcheck I would 😬

Please give ManxMan the benefit of the doubt: I'm sure he didn't mean to upset you at all. I certainly recognise that people don't always use formal, correct English in their posts, but sometimes something screams out and it seems sensible to point out that applications need to be done 'better' than that.

Also if we don't know you have dyslexia, we can't take it into account - there are so many extra complications that brings, and even marrying spellcheck wouldn't help! Although it's a good first step ... I have a sibling quite a bit older than you who has very severe dyslexia, and being given their first PC (at university) transformed their life! 

TripleH

In my experience some jobs (even highly skilled jobs) don't need degrees.
I personally think job related professional qualifications should replace degrees.
I know programmers who have no degrees, in their early 20's and earning good money because they learnt coding and keep up to date with learning the best coding to get work. 
I also know a university 'drop out' who left a degree in maths after the first semester to become an accountant. 
By all means there is no harm studying for a professional qualification relevant to your field of work but there should be no reason why you need a degree. That is just my opinion.

mrlegend123

Savvy_Sue said:

YorkshirePud_TW said:

Finally, please don't just go and correct people via your pedantic paragraph as although it's correct and many people would pick that sort of thing up......I worked my !!!!!! off to get to where I am having mild-dyslexia (not outrageously hard to combat but does not help at all) you may upset someone accidently. All my work is done via phone/computer to try and eliminate as many mistakes as possible - if I could marry spellcheck I would 😬

Please give ManxMan the benefit of the doubt: I'm sure he didn't mean to upset you at all. I certainly recognise that people don't always use formal, correct English in their posts, but sometimes something screams out and it seems sensible to point out that applications need to be done 'better' than that.

Also if we don't know you have dyslexia, we can't take it into account - there are so many extra complications that brings, and even marrying spellcheck wouldn't help! Although it's a good first step ... I have a sibling quite a bit older than you who has very severe dyslexia, and being given his first PC (at university) transformed his life! 

I have severe dyslexia. I'm good at maths but writing...... managed to get a 1st 

Grammarly (word add-on) was a life saver. 

YorkshirePud_TW

@Savvy_Sue I was just stating a point no offence taken, yes at work I am fully kitted out with more than just spellcheck but SC is a great start 🤣

Bhavv

No employer cares the slightest about your education, they only want experience.

A BSc and Masters degree are worthless if the person with them has never worked, and 7 years of relevant experience is more desirable than 3 years experience plus 4 years at uni.

The only thing that employers pay attention to regarding education is that you meet their minimum criteria, and that is it. If a job says you need 2 A levels, having anything more than that does not make you more desirable an applicant.

Nowadays the vast majority if not all job applicants have some kind of a degree, and qualifications alone do not set applicants appart.

Professional jobs that would require a specialized degree are also oversaturated with applicants. 

Everyone needs to stop thinking about 'education' and start thinking about 'experience'. Look for apprenticeships, internships, NVQ and other vocational things and prioritize those over anything that involves sitting in a classroom if your goal is to increase your job prospects.

Also never make the mistake of putting any emphasis on your qualifications. Never put them on the first page of your C.V either. They go at the end now after everything else and before 'References available on request'. Unless asked in an interview, which you won't be, do not even talk about your education as any kind of bargaining chip other than 'Yes these are my qualifications and here are the certificates' when asked for that information. Nobody cares the slightest bit about the useless piece of paper that says you went to a yooney.

Also make sure that if you have a name like 'Bhav*** Patel' (my name) you change it on all your applications to Chad Brodude or some such if you ever expect to get a single reply. No employer today will even read past an 'unpronouncable ethnic name' before throwing their thousands of applications per job straight into the bin.

Nowadays people that have changed a lightbulb once in their life consider themselves to be an engineer. People that self built their PC are labelled as inventors (not even making this up, thats what the whole media calls it). Show your qualifications only when asked and then shut up about them or anything that you think you are.

YorkshirePud_TW

Thanks to the advice in this thread from Everyone it really helped me do more in depth research on courses and what not.

I'm now enrolled onto a level 5 CMI diploma course that really suits my role where I can gain a status 🙂

Thank you for the support and helping me progress forum buddy's and good luck to everyone in the future! 👍

YBR

Bhavv said:

No employer cares the slightest about your education, they only want experience.
Not universally True - it would be the case in my department but not everywhere, My industry look for very specific professional competency so that's a bit different.

The only thing that employers pay attention to regarding education is that you meet their minimum criteria, and that is it. If a job says you need 2 A levels, having anything more than that does not make you more desirable an applicant.
For some that criterion is a degree, and in some areas a masters or Doctorate. (Short sighted IMO) 

Everyone needs to stop thinking about 'education' and start thinking about 'experience'. Look for apprenticeships, internships, NVQ and other vocational things and prioritize those over anything that involves sitting in a classroom if your goal is to increase your job prospects.
The situation varies so widely that this too is untrue. Not all careers/professions have apprenticeship/vocational routes. Not all apprenticeships are worthwhile.

Also never make the mistake of putting any emphasis on your qualifications. Never put them on the first page of your C.V either. They go at the end now after everything else and before 'References available on request'. Unless asked in an interview, which you won't be, do not even talk about your education as any kind of bargaining chip other than 'Yes these are my qualifications and here are the certificates' when asked for that information. Nobody cares the slightest bit about the useless piece of paper that says you went to a yooney.
The best way of laying out a CV also varies depending on Experience and industry. Even as a Senior Engineer, my qualifications go on the first page, but they were only at the top when going for graduate entry jobs.  

Also make sure that if you have a name like 'Bhav*** Patel' (my name) you change it on all your applications to Chad Brodude or some such if you ever expect to get a single reply. No employer today will even read past an 'unpronouncable ethnic name' before throwing their thousands of applications per job straight into the bin.
I'm sad if that's your experience. It's not what I see in my company.

Nowadays people that have changed a lightbulb once in their life consider themselves to be an engineer. People that self built their PC are labelled as inventors (not even making this up, thats what the whole media calls it). Show your qualifications only when asked and then shut up about them or anything that you think you are.
While this is true, this is what a good Engineering Degree or registered Engineer status (CEng, IEng) shows, so why hide it at the back of a CV?

You have made a lot of very definite statements, but they're not universally true. Unfortunately life is not that simple.

route101

I have this problem now. In 2016 I decided to do college course and then gain my degree. I graduated last year and desperate to get my foot in the door. In hindsight I should of tried to get a position when I finished college but the consensus was to get your degree. Did try and get some experience to go alongside my last year of uni, got a few interviews but nothing came of it.
Basically been trying since I graduated to get a position ( A position was cancelled due to Covid). Had perhaps, 5 interviews and good feedback with regards to my CV and Cover Letter.
With no experience a year after I graduated, starting to feel this is mission impossible. Trying to get work experience but Covid and working at home as made that difficult. 

mrlegend123

Bhavv said:

No employer cares the slightest about your education, they only want experience.

A BSc and Masters degree are worthless if the person with them has never worked, and 7 years of relevant experience is more desirable than 3 years experience plus 4 years at uni.

The only thing that employers pay attention to regarding education is that you meet their minimum criteria, and that is it. If a job says you need 2 A levels, having anything more than that does not make you more desirable an applicant.

Nowadays the vast majority if not all job applicants have some kind of a degree, and qualifications alone do not set applicants appart.

Professional jobs that would require a specialized degree are also oversaturated with applicants. 

Everyone needs to stop thinking about 'education' and start thinking about 'experience'. Look for apprenticeships, internships, NVQ and other vocational things and prioritize those over anything that involves sitting in a classroom if your goal is to increase your job prospects.

Also never make the mistake of putting any emphasis on your qualifications. Never put them on the first page of your C.V either. They go at the end now after everything else and before 'References available on request'. Unless asked in an interview, which you won't be, do not even talk about your education as any kind of bargaining chip other than 'Yes these are my qualifications and here are the certificates' when asked for that information. Nobody cares the slightest bit about the useless piece of paper that says you went to a yooney.

Also make sure that if you have a name like 'Bhav*** Patel' (my name) you change it on all your applications to Chad Brodude or some such if you ever expect to get a single reply. No employer today will even read past an 'unpronouncable ethnic name' before throwing their thousands of applications per job straight into the bin.

Nowadays people that have changed a lightbulb once in their life consider themselves to be an engineer. People that self built their PC are labelled as inventors (not even making this up, thats what the whole media calls it). Show your qualifications only when asked and then shut up about them or anything that you think you are.

I prefer professional registrations and qualifications at the top of the CV. Easier when filtering based on competencies.

also, your post is untrue and only applies to low grade jobs such as retail and not professional jobs. Most professional jobs require degrees..... and registration to professional bodies. 

Experience and high level quals is the best mix.

I wouldnt like to learn from a unqualified manager for example........luckily we don't employ managers without management quals. Only mickey mouse firms do that. 

Ditzy_Mitzy

Unfortunately, the New Right/New Labour way of doing things prevalent since the 1990s has profoundly affected the way most young people view tertiary education.  In the brave new world, it is purely commercial and sold as a means to an end.  Naïve college leavers are told that the way to become anything from a flooring salesman to a restaurant manager is to attend a provincial former poly and complete a decidedly average accredited course in carpet studies or cutlery administration or whatever.  It's a waste of the young person's time and money as, on graduation, they find it doesn't offer automatic entry to a junior management position.  It's unfair and, more to the point, devalues degree education.  There's immense value in 'proper' education; completing a degree for its own sake, in studying a subject for intrinsic value and academic interest rather than in misguided desire to become a financial controller.  Proper education still exists, of course, for the wealthy.  It used to be fairly widely available, but then fewer people went to university.  The bums on seats culture ought to go, but that doesn't help the kids of today.
In short: there's all sorts to be gained by doing a proper degree, but the gains are to the student him or herself.