Is it any wonder people lease/PCP?

Grumpy_chap

onomatopoeia99 said:

Using a real world example, I bought my car used 17 years ago.  It cost me £27,000 and has averaged £1,000/year in bills (servicing/repairs).  That works out to £215/month, assuming zero residual value now.

What's the monthly lease cost on a Boxster S from Ling?  I want to know if my costs are lower than what she charges or I would have been better leasing.

Ling does not list the Boxster, but you'd be around £750 - £1k / month to lease.
However, is it fair to compare a used car versus brand new?  I don't think so.
Still cheaper and better to do what you have done, whether you choose brand new to start, or used to start.
We are, sadly, in a world where too many people are driven by the image of a new car every few years as a "must" have.

Johnmcl7

Grumpy_chap said:

onomatopoeia99 said:

Using a real world example, I bought my car used 17 years ago.  It cost me £27,000 and has averaged £1,000/year in bills (servicing/repairs).  That works out to £215/month, assuming zero residual value now.

What's the monthly lease cost on a Boxster S from Ling?  I want to know if my costs are lower than what she charges or I would have been better leasing.

Ling does not list the Boxster, but you'd be around £750 - £1k / month to lease.
However, is it fair to compare a used car versus brand new?  I don't think so.
Still cheaper and better to do what you have done, whether you choose brand new to start, or used to start.
We are, sadly, in a world where too many people are driven by the image of a new car every few years as a "must" have.

I think it is fair to compare second hand and brand new in this thread because the OP is claiming people would be better of leasing with a fixed monthly cost and warranty therefore avoiding unknown repair costs and hassle of a second hand car.

Grumpy_chap

Johnmcl7 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

onomatopoeia99 said:

Using a real world example, I bought my car used 17 years ago.  It cost me £27,000 and has averaged £1,000/year in bills (servicing/repairs).  That works out to £215/month, assuming zero residual value now.

What's the monthly lease cost on a Boxster S from Ling?  I want to know if my costs are lower than what she charges or I would have been better leasing.

Ling does not list the Boxster, but you'd be around £750 - £1k / month to lease.
However, is it fair to compare a used car versus brand new?  I don't think so.
Still cheaper and better to do what you have done, whether you choose brand new to start, or used to start.
We are, sadly, in a world where too many people are driven by the image of a new car every few years as a "must" have.

I think it is fair to compare second hand and brand new in this thread because the OP is claiming people would be better of leasing with a fixed monthly cost and warranty therefore avoiding unknown repair costs and hassle of a second hand car.

OK, thanks - I think that is fair.  Always good to have a different perspective.

Everyone still needs to understand that the PCP or other "innovative" finance offers are there for the benefit of the dealer and not the consumer.  The 50-50 offers are quite possibly the worst for getting the consumer trapped.

angrycrow

This discussion got me thinking about my car costs over the 17 years I have been driving. Just on my daily runners I have had 10 cars in that time. My total cost of purchasing and depreciation and including all servicing repairs and consumables is around £15000. I still have a couple of grand equity in the current car reducing that figure to £13000. What could I have leased for £64 a month.  

I also don't have to panic about reinstatement costs on hand back if a muppett intesco car part dings the car.

I just can't make lease or pcp numbers work for me. 

AdrianC

I bought a £2k, 15yo car as the sensible daily 14 months ago.
One advisory on the MOT since then, for a yellowed headlight - £20 and an hour of DIY to polish it up.

Ling's cheapest lease for the current equivalent is 6+47 £230/mo for the equivalent. So, by now, I'd have spent £5,300.

In the year and ~3k miles (Covid, normal would be nearer 10k), it's had a full set of brake friction (£100), full set of HT ignition (£60), a full set of CrossClimates (£240)... and it's just had a clutch and needs a propshaft. The clutch was point-and-pay, £550ish, including a pair of droplinks. The propshaft is arriving today, £200 delivered - I'll DIY it, like I did with the brakes etc, but it's such an easy job, it'd only be about an hour's labour (£55 inc VAT round here) if I P'n'P'd.

With 3k having been covered in the last year, that lease cost would be £1.77/mile.

I could sell it tomorrow for the same price I paid, without blinking. Let's round up a bit to £1,200 maintenance for the year, for a nice round 40p/mile.

How many people on the PCP treadmill would throw their hands up in horror at that kind of maintenance expenditure in one year on a newly-acquired car?
 
Even if I didn't sell the car, but threw it away tomorrow, that'd be ~£3k after weigh-in. Half the price of the lease.

OTOH, by the end of the four year term, I'd be looking at a total lease bill of £12,200 - before servicing, tyres. On a car with a list price of £16.5k.

What do we think the chances of the maintenance cost damn near tripling over the next three years will be, given this year has included a couple of big-ticket, once-per-lifetime items and a full set of tyres that'll almost certainly see the term out? No, nor me.

BOWFER

Grumpy_chap said:

We are, sadly, in a world where too many people are driven by the image of a new car every few years as a "must" have.

Again, a fundamental point on which I disagree.
Many, ourselves included, simply need reliable cars for work and do not want the risk of a used one.
Little annoys me more than having to visit a garage with a car - at any time.
Even a once a year service is a pain to me.
It's too easy to throw the 'keeping up with the jones' accusations around when it's not like that at all.

Grumpy_chap

BOWFER said:

Grumpy_chap said:

We are, sadly, in a world where too many people are driven by the image of a new car every few years as a "must" have.

Again, a fundamental point on which I disagree.
Many, ourselves included, simply need reliable cars for work and do not want the risk of a used one.
Little annoys me more than having to visit a garage with a car - at any time.
Even a once a year service is a pain to me.
It's too easy to throw the 'keeping up with the jones' accusations around when it's not like that at all.

We shall, of course, disagree but with a smile.
This thread has gone to what are two virtual extremes:

• new car every few years on ever-rolling PCP (which is a valid choice for some and, if informed from the outset, a reasonable approach.  I can see the advantage for ex-company car driver / car allowance driver as one case in point)
• a near end-of-life car at 10 or more years old and £2k budget point

There is a massive gap between these two extremes that offers great value for money without the need to be worried about reliability or the risk of a used car.  Either, the pre-reg / nearly new / couple of year old car or (if concern about used car history is dominant), the brand new car but no need to swap out after 3 or 4 years.  If the car you have is meeting your needs and reliable, then keep it until either parameter changes.  Based upon the "bathtub" curve, even a brand new car is no absolute guarantee of reliability as "run-in" failures affect all brands.  The most reliable car is a known entity.

surfer91919

PCP/ New cars seem an enormous amount of money to me. Pick the right used car and it will serve you well.
My current car is a 1997 Mercedes C250 TD which I paid a grand total of £200 for. In 30,000 miles there have been zero breakdowns. this comes on top of my previous two C250 TDs which covered 150,000 miles between them with zero breakdowns. The only short notice repairs needed were an alternator on one (got me home so no breakdown) and a front wheel bearing on another... in 200,000 miles. 20k miles a year at times. Even if I took my cars to garages for repairs there would still be saving of about £10k over a new or PCP car. I do understand why some go with new cars, some people are run off their feet busy and/ or don't have the knowledge needed to get hold of a good used car but I think there's a huge amount of consumerism going on too.

Johnmcl7

I usually buy cars around two to three years old and keep them for three to four years old (bar the current one which I've had a lot longer) and in 20 years of that I've only had a single car stop me from taking a journey when a DPF sensor failed and forced the car into limp home mode.  However this was a common failure on this model of car within the initial three year warranty so I don't agree second hand cars are this terrible russian roulette of reliability and new cars are far from immune to problems as well.

BOWFER

Johnmcl7 said:

and new cars are far from immune to problems as well.

This is true, but there's far more onus on the manufacturer/dealer to get a new one fixed, and provide you with a loan car in the process.
For example, our new Evoque had a faulty DPF sensor after only a few weeks.
The car was collected from us at the same time as a loan Disco sport was delivered.
Try that with a used car.