Vertical Radiators versus Horizontal Radiators for Effective Heat

Jeepers_Creepers

Whilst it is true that a 'designer' column rad will give less heat output than an equivalently-sized (ie overall outside dimensions, hxwxd)  'conventional' radiator, that is not to say - at all - that a column rad cannot heat a room.

Rads heat using two main methods - radiation and convection. 'Radiation' is the instant heat you feel when close to a rad or fire - if the fire suddenly flares up, you instantly feel that heat just as quickly as you see it. Folk on the other side of the room might get the benefit of this heat a couple of minutes later when the heated air is convected around the room via the ceiling!

Modern rads are designed to give out their heat as efficiently as possible for their outer dimensions - mainly the width and height of the rad. For this they can add 'panels' and 'convection fins', so they heat the room through both methods. A few minutes spent comparing different 'types' of rad will soon tell you the benefits of having fins and extra panels; Type 11 means one panel and one set of fins, 21 is two panels and one set of whatsits, 22 is - cool, well done.

https://www.screwfix.com/c/heating-plumbing/central-heating-radiators/cat830988

The added benefit of 'fins' is that it helps heat a rising column of air which then circulates around the round, often managing to heat a room more evenly, even if the rad is 'hidden' behind a sofa (although not squashed up...).

BUT, heat output is heat output, and if you work out what's needed for your room, you can darn well heat it up whichever way you want - bearing in mind that finless 'column' rads will just have to be physically larger.

I was all set to have conventional rads in our new extension, but hated the way it took up the wall space where TV units and suchlike would need to go - these would then have to sit a good distance from these walls. It was almost a last-minute decision to go for 'column' rads as the room had two sticky-out pillars on the opposite walls to support the steel above, and nothing else could be done with these - so ideal for tall, narrow rads! These were around 550mm wide, so I looked up how large a designer rad could fit on there, and found that a ~450mmW x 1800mmH rad would give 1.4kW. Two of them, surely, would do a decent job of heating the room?

And so it proved - and they look bludy fantastic - part of the overall design - rather than being a hindrance.

So, work out the heating requirement for your room, and see what size of column rad(s) would do the job - very likely you'd need two.

Leodogger

Jeepers_Creepers said:

Whilst it is true that a 'designer' column rad will give less heat output than an equivalently-sized (ie overall outside dimensions, hxwxd)  'conventional' radiator, that is not to say - at all - that a column rad cannot heat a room.

Rads heat using two main methods - radiation and convection. 'Radiation' is the instant heat you feel when close to a rad or fire - if the fire suddenly flares up, you instantly feel that heat just as quickly as you see it. Folk on the other side of the room might get the benefit of this heat a couple of minutes later when the heated air is convected around the room via the ceiling!

Modern rads are designed to give out their heat as efficiently as possible for their outer dimensions - mainly the width and height of the rad. For this they can add 'panels' and 'convection fins', so they heat the room through both methods. A few minutes spent comparing different 'types' of rad will soon tell you the benefits of having fins and extra panels; Type 11 means one panel and one set of fins, 21 is two panels and one set of whatsits, 22 is - cool, well done.

https://www.screwfix.com/c/heating-plumbing/central-heating-radiators/cat830988

The added benefit of 'fins' is that it helps heat a rising column of air which then circulates around the round, often managing to heat a room more evenly, even if the rad is 'hidden' behind a sofa (although not squashed up...).

BUT, heat output is heat output, and if you work out what's needed for your room, you can darn well heat it up whichever way you want - bearing in mind that finless 'column' rads will just have to be physically larger.

I was all set to have conventional rads in our new extension, but hated the way it took up the wall space where TV units and suchlike would need to go - these would then have to sit a good distance from these walls. It was almost a last-minute decision to go for 'column' rads as the room had two sticky-out pillars on the opposite walls to support the steel above, and nothing else could be done with these - so ideal for tall, narrow rads! These were around 550mm wide, so I looked up how large a designer rad could fit on there, and found that a ~450mmW x 1800mmH rad would give 1.4kW. Two of them, surely, would do a decent job of heating the room?

And so it proved - and they look bludy fantastic - part of the overall design - rather than being a hindrance.

So, work out the heating requirement for your room, and see what size of column rad(s) would do the job - very likely you'd need two.

That's just the point, we don't have the room which is why we were looking for vertical ones.    We can only accommodate an 1800 x 420 wide vertical rad. which gives out just over 5,000 btu's (we are restricted because of electrical sockets one side and the window wall the other side, and presumably we need the rad close to the french doors and window wall to combat the cold coming into the room) and there is no other room space that wouldn't look silly with vertical rads (one behind the TV set which is not recommended on the net because it is a heat source within 2ft of the TV) and the other side of the sofa which would be partially sited into the room.  We have a wall unit taking up one complete wall and the only other wall has the fireplace, although I suppose we could mount one beside the fireplace which would look a bit odd.   Our room is 16' 9" x 10' 9" with an 8ft high ceiling. 

Jeepers_Creepers

Leodogger said:

That's just the point, we don't have the room which is why we were looking for vertical ones.    We can only accommodate an 1800 x 420 wide vertical rad. which gives out just over 5,000 btu's (we are restricted because of electrical sockets one side and the window wall the other side, and presumably we need the rad close to the french doors and window wall to combat the cold coming into the room) and there is no other room space that wouldn't look silly with vertical rads (one behind the TV set which is not recommended on the net because it is a heat source within 2ft of the TV) and the other side of the sofa which would be partially sited into the room.  We have a wall unit taking up one complete wall and the only other wall has the fireplace, although I suppose we could mount one beside the fireplace which would look a bit odd.   Our room is 16' 9" x 10' 9" with an 8ft high ceiling. 

That's identical to our column rad - but we have two of them. Our room is more like 6m square, but has just been built so is to the latest insulation standards, and a solid floor with no draughts... The combined 2.8kW output has heated this with no issues over the past winter, tho' it's fair to say we aren't in the coldest parts of the country, and overnight temps rarely go below - ooh - -5oC.

In theory, our situations aren't dissimilar, with our extension being around twice your room size, and with twice the columns! What's more, we have a ~4m bifold door, 2 windows and 2 sky lanterns.

Like you, I had to personally make the call on the rad sizes and styles, and there was an element of a gamble in it - I wouldn't have been too surprised to find it struggled at times, tho' so far I've got away with it. What clinched the decision for me was that the sheer aesthetic and practical benefits of taking up these two otherwise-redundant pillars and freeing up the remaining wall spaces overruled the possibility of it not being adequate at times. I had in mind that the worst case scenario would be that I'd need to supplement the heating in that room over the coldest spells with a small electric heater, but felt confident that for 80% of the year it would cope with no issues. As it turned out, it has coped admirably without anything extra over the past winter.

So, your plumber is 'right' in that 'designer' column rads do not give out as much heat as 'convector' rads for the same overall size. BUT, a 1.5kW output from a column rad is really pretty much the same as a 1.5kW output from a conventional rad.

Is that, then, an option; fit a single 450x1800 column rad with the understanding that you may need to back it up on certain days over particular months? Will the benefits of a neat single tall rad outweigh the possibility of this requirement? Would it be a hassle to have a small electric heater running every now and then - perhaps to get the room initially up to temp? I'd imagine it would only require a small 800W jobbie.

What era is your home, and what level of insulation has been added?

Your call...

Leodogger

Our bungalow was built in the 1960's with insulation.    I did say we can't have more than a 420 x 1800 on a column radiator giving out 5,000 btu's and the plumber said this wouldn't be warm enough for our size room.   I have no pillars as the bungalow is modern with all square flat walls with two doors and a fireplace out of one wall, more or less all windows on the outer wall and as I said a wall unit taking up the other inner wall.   The only available wall for any rads is behind the sofa.    We live in the Midlands and the temperature can go down anything up to -9c, we have even had it go down to -12c on one or two occasions during my lifetime.

Jeepers_Creepers

It's worth doing the calcs just to see how far off your rad size will be - I suspect it'll be by a fair margin.

1.4kW might be enough to keep it warm, but I suspect it'll struggle to get it warm in the first place.

Almost certainly it will be undersized for your room, so what you chose to do with that info is up to you. I made my call based on our local conditions and also that I could back it up during the coldest spells if needed; for me, it was worth that risk as fitting conventional rads taking up valuable wall space was something that was important to avoid.

Can't your column rad go a bit wider? Couldn't you add a second rad - same style but perhaps conventional 2' height - on another wall? That will likely get you nicely over the 2kW mark, so much better chance of it being adequate.

Other solutions to consider are skirting-radiators - check them out

Doozergirl

It seems a bit like the problem is the undersizing more than the difference between the traditional and designer rad.  

Have you run the room through a BTU calculator?  I use the one at Best Heating as it asks more questions than most.  

You have a big room and so it's always going to be a good option to spread the heat between two or more radiators.  The concept of heat often comes from the radiator itself and   you'll have more cold feeling spots if there's only one. 

What about behind the door even?   I have built radiators into fitted furniture, even.   It's not ideal but people seem to not be prioritising the location of radiators any more and disappearing walls in big open plan spaces doesn't help that.   Everything else is more important than an ugly radiator, hence that rapid rise of the vertical rad.  I don't have a customer now that doesn't request them or UFH.  I do resist UFH in older houses that aren't well insulated.  

ComicGeek

I've just installed 4 of these https://www.ultraheatradiators.com/category-details.php?menu=show&subs=Ultraheat%20Premier%20Range%20Designer%20Radiators&subs2=Ultraheat%20Tilbrook%20White&viewlist=278 spaced around our new open plan kitchen/family room.

I only needed 800W from each rad, so have 1800x156 ones - heat output is really good, and they have higher output that other designer rads, as they have a deeper fin design with more space for air flow at the back. Really nice even heating through the room.

The largest 2000x506 would give you 10000 btus. But at that size of room you should always have at least 2 rads as evenly spread as possible.

Don't forget that you can get up to 30% of heat output via radiation, so putting them behind a sofa would mean losing that, plus the radiant heating effect which is more pleasant. 

Excuse the mess, I'm still moving things in - photo below of the 2 we have by our French doors - I've installed them on the soil stack boxings to make full use of the space.

starving_artist

mrschaucer said:

spend some time looking at the BTUs of the radiators you like the look of.

Check you are comparing like for like. Output at delta 50 is the most common but some radiator brands eg. Reina quote their output at delta 70 (some retailers adjust for this but others don't)

Jeepers_Creepers

ComicGeek said:

I've just installed 4 of these https://www.ultraheatradiators.com/category-details.php?menu=show&subs=Ultraheat%20Premier%20Range%20Designer%20Radiators&subs2=Ultraheat%20Tilbrook%20White&viewlist=278 spaced around our new open plan kitchen/family room.

I only needed 800W from each rad, so have 1800x156 ones - heat output is really good, and they have higher output that other designer rads, as they have a deeper fin design with more space for air flow at the back. Really nice even heating through the room.

An 1800x 450 one of these gives out 2.4kW?! How the 'ell?

https://www.ultraheatradiators.com/product-details.php?

(Nice room - and making use of these boxings like me!)

Mine were this style (tho' not from this company): https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vertical-Horizontal-Designer-Bathroom-Oval-Column-Radiator-White-Anthracite-Rad/391972553871?

Surprised to find that the outputs of these are higher than I'd previously thought; the 354 wide one (which is actually the ones I have - I had to allow for the valves at each side within the overall width) is 6888 btu = 2kW, so my room is getting 4kW in total flat out, so no wonder it's managing fine. The 472mm width version is 9184btu = 2.7kW, so that's pretty impressive (which is no great surprise as there are two columns ('panels').

Your Ultraheat ones, Comic, are more impressive still. I'm surprised, tho', since the surface area of the double-column ones I have is surely a lot greater? But, wow :-)

How wide can you make that tall rad, Leo? And could you add a convention-height version of the same style elsewhere in the room without too much issue?

coffeehound

ComicGeek said:

Don't forget that you can get up to 30% of heat output via radiation, so putting them behind a sofa would mean losing that, plus the radiant heating effect which is more pleasant. 

Also, given that the OP's ceilings are pretty high, there's more opportunity for warm air to pool at the ceiling, so the more heat delivered as radiant, the better