Flight cancelled/schedule change rights query

nebula200

Hi, have a short break booked with On The Beach early June to Spain.  Not convinced this will go ahead anyway, but they have notified me that the flight with Ryanair has now been "moved" from 22:55pm to 11:55am - they didn't happen to mention that the flight number had changed also.  I believe this is classed as a significant change, especially with the original flight being cancelled and being booked on different flight number now?  Just wanted to check that we are within rights to ask for refund due to this? Very grateful for any guidance!

Westin

nebula200 said:

Hi, have a short break booked with On The Beach early June to Spain.  Not convinced this will go ahead anyway, but they have notified me that the flight with Ryanair has now been "moved" from 22:55pm to 11:55am - they didn't happen to mention that the flight number had changed also.  I believe this is classed as a significant change, especially with the original flight being cancelled and being booked on different flight number now?  Just wanted to check that we are within rights to ask for refund due to this? Very grateful for any guidance!

If you reread OTB booking terms and conditions they will tell you what is classed by them as a significant change and rights you have to cancel.

bagand96

OnTheBeach T&C’s say a significant change is more than 12 hours so they may not allow you to cancel.  

Ryanair would allow a cancellation of the flight booking. But you’d have to go through OTB. And if OTB have already accepted the change then that option won’t exist, and ultimately you are at the mercy of OTB terms in addition to Ryanair’s. 

Butts

Why anyone would book with On The Beach after their track record last year and the fact they left ABTA to avoid having to give refunds people were entitled to is a mystery.

nebula200

Hi Westin, the OTB booking terms and conditions state an insignificant change is "Alteration of your outward/return flights by less than 12 hours" - but doesn't state anything about a change of Flight Number which I thought could be a reason for refund (from MSE): If you're moved to a different flight altogether (ie, a different flight number) you'd likely be covered under different, far tighter EU Flight Cancellation Laws (the Government insists these won't change when the UK leaves the EU on 29 March 2019), where you'd get a full refund or new flight, and possible compensation. This sometimes happens when an airline fails to sell enough seats, so cancels the flight. Is this correct?

nebula200

Butts said:

Why anyone would book with On The Beach after their track record last year and the fact they left ABTA to avoid having to give refunds people were entitled to is a mystery.

Hi - yes this was booked early last year, would not do again!

bagand96

nebula200 said:

Hi Westin, the OTB booking terms and conditions state an insignificant change is "Alteration of your outward/return flights by less than 12 hours" - but doesn't state anything about a change of Flight Number which I thought could be a reason for refund (from MSE): If you're moved to a different flight altogether (ie, a different flight number) you'd likely be covered under different, far tighter EU Flight Cancellation Laws (the Government insists these won't change when the UK leaves the EU on 29 March 2019), where you'd get a full refund or new flight, and possible compensation. This sometimes happens when an airline fails to sell enough seats, so cancels the flight. Is this correct?

You are correct that EC261 has been adopted by the UK (with some minor changes) and you are also correct that your flight has been cancelled so you are entitled to a refund if you'd prefer in respect of the flight booking (compensation wouldn't be due in this case).  This would be the situation if you'd booked your flight direct with Ryanair.  They'd have emailed you giving you the choice.

However, you've booked a Multi-Contract package with OntheBeach, so you are also bound by their T&C's for the package.  Those T&C's state that the change is not significant, only changes of 12 hours or more are significant.  With traditional tour operators (TUI, Jet2Holidays etc) these clauses are standard because their initial flying programmes would be provisional and charter flights could change.  The waters are slightly muddied with the Multi Contract package operators because they have no control over the flights or what the airline does.

Seems a bit of a grey area because under your contract with Ryanair you are entitled to a refund.  But under your contract with OTB they don't consider it a significant change triggering cancellation rights.

Out of interest, what are the T&Cs of your hotel with OTB? Is it non-refundable, or flexible and could be cancelled?  You could try getting in touch with them and saying you want to exercise your right for a refund of the flight element, and then also cancel the accommodation element.  (OTB admin fees will likely apply if they'd even let you do it).

nebula200

bagand96 said:

nebula200 said:

Hi Westin, the OTB booking terms and conditions state an insignificant change is "Alteration of your outward/return flights by less than 12 hours" - but doesn't state anything about a change of Flight Number which I thought could be a reason for refund (from MSE): If you're moved to a different flight altogether (ie, a different flight number) you'd likely be covered under different, far tighter EU Flight Cancellation Laws (the Government insists these won't change when the UK leaves the EU on 29 March 2019), where you'd get a full refund or new flight, and possible compensation. This sometimes happens when an airline fails to sell enough seats, so cancels the flight. Is this correct?

You are correct that EC261 has been adopted by the UK (with some minor changes) and you are also correct that your flight has been cancelled so you are entitled to a refund if you'd prefer in respect of the flight booking (compensation wouldn't be due in this case).  This would be the situation if you'd booked your flight direct with Ryanair.  They'd have emailed you giving you the choice.

However, you've booked a Multi-Contract package with OntheBeach, so you are also bound by their T&C's for the package.  Those T&C's state that the change is not significant, only changes of 12 hours or more are significant.  With traditional tour operators (TUI, Jet2Holidays etc) these clauses are standard because their initial flying programmes would be provisional and charter flights could change.  The waters are slightly muddied with the Multi Contract package operators because they have no control over the flights or what the airline does.

Seems a bit of a grey area because under your contract with Ryanair you are entitled to a refund.  But under your contract with OTB they don't consider it a significant change triggering cancellation rights.

Out of interest, what are the T&Cs of your hotel with OTB? Is it non-refundable, or flexible and could be cancelled?  You could try getting in touch with them and saying you want to exercise your right for a refund of the flight element, and then also cancel the accommodation element.  (OTB admin fees will likely apply if they'd even let you do it).

Hi bagand96 and Westin, and all MSE experts - great news, I had emailed On the Beach yesterday, quoting information from this forum/website, and I received an email this afternoon confirming they have now cancelled the holiday?! Result!  Am so relieved, this was getting very stressful - so just wanted to say a huge thank you for your help (and phew!).  Keep safe

bagand96

nebula200 said:

bagand96 said:

nebula200 said:

Hi Westin, the OTB booking terms and conditions state an insignificant change is "Alteration of your outward/return flights by less than 12 hours" - but doesn't state anything about a change of Flight Number which I thought could be a reason for refund (from MSE): If you're moved to a different flight altogether (ie, a different flight number) you'd likely be covered under different, far tighter EU Flight Cancellation Laws (the Government insists these won't change when the UK leaves the EU on 29 March 2019), where you'd get a full refund or new flight, and possible compensation. This sometimes happens when an airline fails to sell enough seats, so cancels the flight. Is this correct?

You are correct that EC261 has been adopted by the UK (with some minor changes) and you are also correct that your flight has been cancelled so you are entitled to a refund if you'd prefer in respect of the flight booking (compensation wouldn't be due in this case).  This would be the situation if you'd booked your flight direct with Ryanair.  They'd have emailed you giving you the choice.

However, you've booked a Multi-Contract package with OntheBeach, so you are also bound by their T&C's for the package.  Those T&C's state that the change is not significant, only changes of 12 hours or more are significant.  With traditional tour operators (TUI, Jet2Holidays etc) these clauses are standard because their initial flying programmes would be provisional and charter flights could change.  The waters are slightly muddied with the Multi Contract package operators because they have no control over the flights or what the airline does.

Seems a bit of a grey area because under your contract with Ryanair you are entitled to a refund.  But under your contract with OTB they don't consider it a significant change triggering cancellation rights.

Out of interest, what are the T&Cs of your hotel with OTB? Is it non-refundable, or flexible and could be cancelled?  You could try getting in touch with them and saying you want to exercise your right for a refund of the flight element, and then also cancel the accommodation element.  (OTB admin fees will likely apply if they'd even let you do it).

Hi bagand96 and Westin, and all MSE experts - great news, I had emailed On the Beach yesterday, quoting information from this forum/website, and I received an email this afternoon confirming they have now cancelled the holiday?! Result!  Am so relieved, this was getting very stressful - so just wanted to say a huge thank you for your help (and phew!).  Keep safe

Good to know and thanks for reporting back.

My biggest worry was that OTB would have already accepted the Ryanair schedule change, but it would appear they hadn’t.  Accommodation must have been flexible too so they’ve allowed the cancellation (I think they may have fought you if it was going to leave themselves out of pocket!)