Is conveyancing extra slow at the moment?

Adsta

I'm going through purchasing a place at the moment. The solicitors I instructed cost me a bit more than other quotes I got but they came highly recommended from a friend.

Within 3 weeks they got all searches done and waiting on some enquiries back. But they seem to be going rapid. They give me a weekly update of what they are doing and what has been done so I never feel the need to chase them.

I'm using an online based firm, but so far I can't fault them. EA tried pushing me to their recommended, I almost went for it because it was cheaper. But I didn't see the point in penny pinching for what is a massive purchase and would rather a supportive solicitor going through it. Really glad I paid the bit extra so far.

teachfast

Gavin83 said:

teachfast said:

Gavin83 said:

teachfast said:

Tiglet2 said:

Swash said:

TBagpuss said:

teachfast said:

Greed has made them take on more work than they can deal with, so they do the last thing they were sat on for. Must be a horribly stressful way to work. 

It's not greed (or at least not on the part of the lawyers!) It's more that the demand for cheap conveyancing means that the only way to make it viable to carry out is to deal with large volumes. If you want more attention from your conveyancer you need to be willing to pay for their time, rather than a low fixed fee.

Right now, you've got the perfect storm of more people than usual seeking to move because of the stamp duty holiday, combined with a lot of people working from home which slows things down.

I see this a lot on this forum. As someone who is currently 7 months into what should have been a simple conveyancing process, if my solicitor gave me a heads up that they were going to be painfully slow and uncommunicative, then I would have gladly paid double to get it over the line. The problem is, they don't tell you. So how are we supposed to know that when we sign the dotted line? 

The fees they charge would be a good clue or a recommendation from a friend who has used the solicitor and been happy with the service.  Also, bear in mind, no solicitor can guarantee speed, since they rely on third parties to provide essential information, nor do they know in advance what legal issues may be discovered during the process. 

Solicitors would normally charge around £200 per hour or more for their time.  Every time you telephoned or they wrote to you, they would be adding that to their fees. 

A "fixed fee" for conveyancing that can take months to reach completion is operating under very fine margins and so the client contact is minimal. 

The problem is that clients do not want to pay the kind of money that makes hand-holding, being on the other end of the phone in an instant and available for advice whenever you need it, possible.

Consumers have driven the price down, but the result is firms with far too many clients than they can cope with and many unqualified staff doing the admin.   The solicitor in charge of your file, as well as hundreds of other files, will only look at the file at key stages during the process.  While they are waiting for something from a third party, the file will remain in the pending pile, to be chased periodically.

And sticking to this position just further damages the reputation of the profession. £200 is far, far too much money for the level of qualification required. They demand it because they can with people who are in the do-do and have to pay. It also provides people with a level of indemnity  It's not what their time is actually worth, but it certainly goes to their heads to think so.

Then don't use a solicitor. You could always do the work yourself if it's that easy.

Or expect those who are trained and paid to do the job they profess to do for you? 

Ultimately with everything in life (way beyond just legal council) people have 3 options:

1) Pay top dollar and get top levels of service.
2) Pay the minimum possible and get the minimum possible service.
3) Do it yourself.

People often want to pay the prices of option 2 but with the service of option 1 and that often just doesn’t work.

With conveyancing people often pay a small fixed fee and in return get average service and most of the work done by paralegals. If you want rapid service, a solicitor on the end of the phone and them to do 100% of the work then pay for it but it’ll cost several times as much. 

Plenty of people complaining about local specialist solicitors as well. They're often just as bad but with an added layer of self-important arrogance towards their paying clients. 

Slithery

teachfast said:

Gavin83 said:

teachfast said:

Gavin83 said:

teachfast said:

Tiglet2 said:

Swash said:

TBagpuss said:

teachfast said:

Greed has made them take on more work than they can deal with, so they do the last thing they were sat on for. Must be a horribly stressful way to work. 

It's not greed (or at least not on the part of the lawyers!) It's more that the demand for cheap conveyancing means that the only way to make it viable to carry out is to deal with large volumes. If you want more attention from your conveyancer you need to be willing to pay for their time, rather than a low fixed fee.

Right now, you've got the perfect storm of more people than usual seeking to move because of the stamp duty holiday, combined with a lot of people working from home which slows things down.

I see this a lot on this forum. As someone who is currently 7 months into what should have been a simple conveyancing process, if my solicitor gave me a heads up that they were going to be painfully slow and uncommunicative, then I would have gladly paid double to get it over the line. The problem is, they don't tell you. So how are we supposed to know that when we sign the dotted line? 

The fees they charge would be a good clue or a recommendation from a friend who has used the solicitor and been happy with the service.  Also, bear in mind, no solicitor can guarantee speed, since they rely on third parties to provide essential information, nor do they know in advance what legal issues may be discovered during the process. 

Solicitors would normally charge around £200 per hour or more for their time.  Every time you telephoned or they wrote to you, they would be adding that to their fees. 

A "fixed fee" for conveyancing that can take months to reach completion is operating under very fine margins and so the client contact is minimal. 

The problem is that clients do not want to pay the kind of money that makes hand-holding, being on the other end of the phone in an instant and available for advice whenever you need it, possible.

Consumers have driven the price down, but the result is firms with far too many clients than they can cope with and many unqualified staff doing the admin.   The solicitor in charge of your file, as well as hundreds of other files, will only look at the file at key stages during the process.  While they are waiting for something from a third party, the file will remain in the pending pile, to be chased periodically.

And sticking to this position just further damages the reputation of the profession. £200 is far, far too much money for the level of qualification required. They demand it because they can with people who are in the do-do and have to pay. It also provides people with a level of indemnity  It's not what their time is actually worth, but it certainly goes to their heads to think so.

Then don't use a solicitor. You could always do the work yourself if it's that easy.

Or expect those who are trained and paid to do the job they profess to do for you? 

Ultimately with everything in life (way beyond just legal council) people have 3 options:

1) Pay top dollar and get top levels of service.
2) Pay the minimum possible and get the minimum possible service.
3) Do it yourself.

People often want to pay the prices of option 2 but with the service of option 1 and that often just doesn’t work.

With conveyancing people often pay a small fixed fee and in return get average service and most of the work done by paralegals. If you want rapid service, a solicitor on the end of the phone and them to do 100% of the work then pay for it but it’ll cost several times as much. 

Plenty of people complaining about local specialist solicitors as well. They're often just as bad but with an added layer of self-important arrogance towards their paying clients. 

There are also plenty of people using 'local specialist solicitors' who have a great experience. Your 'all solicitors are terrible' line that you repeat on every remotely relevant thread is starting to make you sound like Crashy....

teachfast

Slithery said:

teachfast said:

Gavin83 said:

teachfast said:

Gavin83 said:

teachfast said:

Tiglet2 said:

Swash said:

TBagpuss said:

teachfast said:

Greed has made them take on more work than they can deal with, so they do the last thing they were sat on for. Must be a horribly stressful way to work. 

It's not greed (or at least not on the part of the lawyers!) It's more that the demand for cheap conveyancing means that the only way to make it viable to carry out is to deal with large volumes. If you want more attention from your conveyancer you need to be willing to pay for their time, rather than a low fixed fee.

Right now, you've got the perfect storm of more people than usual seeking to move because of the stamp duty holiday, combined with a lot of people working from home which slows things down.

I see this a lot on this forum. As someone who is currently 7 months into what should have been a simple conveyancing process, if my solicitor gave me a heads up that they were going to be painfully slow and uncommunicative, then I would have gladly paid double to get it over the line. The problem is, they don't tell you. So how are we supposed to know that when we sign the dotted line? 

The fees they charge would be a good clue or a recommendation from a friend who has used the solicitor and been happy with the service.  Also, bear in mind, no solicitor can guarantee speed, since they rely on third parties to provide essential information, nor do they know in advance what legal issues may be discovered during the process. 

Solicitors would normally charge around £200 per hour or more for their time.  Every time you telephoned or they wrote to you, they would be adding that to their fees. 

A "fixed fee" for conveyancing that can take months to reach completion is operating under very fine margins and so the client contact is minimal. 

The problem is that clients do not want to pay the kind of money that makes hand-holding, being on the other end of the phone in an instant and available for advice whenever you need it, possible.

Consumers have driven the price down, but the result is firms with far too many clients than they can cope with and many unqualified staff doing the admin.   The solicitor in charge of your file, as well as hundreds of other files, will only look at the file at key stages during the process.  While they are waiting for something from a third party, the file will remain in the pending pile, to be chased periodically.

And sticking to this position just further damages the reputation of the profession. £200 is far, far too much money for the level of qualification required. They demand it because they can with people who are in the do-do and have to pay. It also provides people with a level of indemnity  It's not what their time is actually worth, but it certainly goes to their heads to think so.

Then don't use a solicitor. You could always do the work yourself if it's that easy.

Or expect those who are trained and paid to do the job they profess to do for you? 

Ultimately with everything in life (way beyond just legal council) people have 3 options:

1) Pay top dollar and get top levels of service.
2) Pay the minimum possible and get the minimum possible service.
3) Do it yourself.

People often want to pay the prices of option 2 but with the service of option 1 and that often just doesn’t work.

With conveyancing people often pay a small fixed fee and in return get average service and most of the work done by paralegals. If you want rapid service, a solicitor on the end of the phone and them to do 100% of the work then pay for it but it’ll cost several times as much. 

Plenty of people complaining about local specialist solicitors as well. They're often just as bad but with an added layer of self-important arrogance towards their paying clients. 

There are also plenty of people using 'local specialist solicitors' who have a great experience. Your 'all solicitors are terrible' line that you repeat on every remotely relevant thread is starting to make you sound like Crashy....

I've never once said 'all solicitors' are anything. If I have, please let me know where.

Bradeyela

This is really very worrying. Before we bought our current property 15 years ago we were buying another one. After 12 months of waiting for the sale to go through we had to pull out. The sellers dragged it on and on with excuse after excuse and then put the price up another £20k to reflect how much the property would then sell for which priced us out. The solicitors were very unresponsive. It was really stressful. Then we bought our current house which went through really quickly because there was no chain. 
We are now selling again and absolutely dreading it as we need a quick sale and from doing my research on here and elsewhere the processes are still as bad if not worse. I have also been on sites where the estate agents and the solicitors go for their news and they seem to be locked in battles blaming each other for delays and pretty scathing towards each other. It is no wonder it is so slow if these guys can't work together to get our sales through. 
Is there anywhere that we can go where the process is fast? Is there such a solicitors or similar service any one knows of?

TBG01

Define "we need a quick sale". What's that timescale? Is it the usual 8 - 12 weeks it can take for a typical straight forward transaction, or quicker? If quicker can the buyer meet your timescale? Can you respond to all enquiries in a timely manner? Is the title sound?  Basically is everything in place for a quick sale or are you dictating the pace of things without knowing what goes into a transaction?

I spoke to a client yesterday who wanted a quote for a sale and an onward purchase (yet to be found) that "MUST" complete by the end of June. I told him that would be extremely tight and it's something we simply can't and won't guarantee. His response to that was "everyone in the chain has agreed to complete in four weeks so it'll be fine".

When we inevitably can't meet that timescale, who do you think he'll blame? The Solicitors who have told him on several occasions it's unlikely, or those in the chain who have no experience of conveyancing but have told him what he wanted to hear? 

Tiglet2

steampowered said:

TBG01 said:

Just exactly what qualifications do you think Solicitors have? You do know you're looking at a minimum of 6 years to become a fully qualified Solicitor?

What's your thoughts on labour charges set by electricians, mechanics, etc? Is that okay for their level of qualification? 

Very few of the people working within conveyancing firms are actually solicitors. It is more likely that you get a paralegal within a team, supervised by one solicitor. 

That's true, there are a lot of paralegals, trainee solicitors etc, but the comment originated from stating that solicitors charge upwards of £200 per hour, depending on the level of their expertise.  A trainee or unqualified member of staff could not charge those kind of fees, but where a transaction is complicated, i.e. not a sound title (and by that I do NOT mean no chain!), a Solicitor would need to be consulted for advice by the trainee.  Factory style conveyancing is a flat fee for a basic service by staff who have legal experience but are not solicitors, because factory style conveyancing cannot afford to employ many qualified solicitors when they set their fees so low.

Tiglet2

TBG01 said:

Define "we need a quick sale". What's that timescale? Is it the usual 8 - 12 weeks it can take for a typical straight forward transaction, or quicker? If quicker can the buyer meet your timescale? Can you respond to all enquiries in a timely manner? Is the title sound?  Basically is everything in place for a quick sale or are you dictating the pace of things without knowing what goes into a transaction?

I spoke to a client yesterday who wanted a quote for a sale and an onward purchase (yet to be found) that "MUST" complete by the end of June. I told him that would be extremely tight and it's something we simply can't and won't guarantee. His response to that was "everyone in the chain has agreed to complete in four weeks so it'll be fine".

When we inevitably can't meet that timescale, who do you think he'll blame? The Solicitors who have told him on several occasions it's unlikely, or those in the chain who have no experience of conveyancing but have told him what he wanted to hear? 

^^ This ^^

teachfast

teachfast said:

Slithery said:

teachfast said:

Gavin83 said:

teachfast said:

Gavin83 said:

teachfast said:

Tiglet2 said:

Swash said:

TBagpuss said:

teachfast said:

Greed has made them take on more work than they can deal with, so they do the last thing they were sat on for. Must be a horribly stressful way to work. 

It's not greed (or at least not on the part of the lawyers!) It's more that the demand for cheap conveyancing means that the only way to make it viable to carry out is to deal with large volumes. If you want more attention from your conveyancer you need to be willing to pay for their time, rather than a low fixed fee.

Right now, you've got the perfect storm of more people than usual seeking to move because of the stamp duty holiday, combined with a lot of people working from home which slows things down.

I see this a lot on this forum. As someone who is currently 7 months into what should have been a simple conveyancing process, if my solicitor gave me a heads up that they were going to be painfully slow and uncommunicative, then I would have gladly paid double to get it over the line. The problem is, they don't tell you. So how are we supposed to know that when we sign the dotted line? 

The fees they charge would be a good clue or a recommendation from a friend who has used the solicitor and been happy with the service.  Also, bear in mind, no solicitor can guarantee speed, since they rely on third parties to provide essential information, nor do they know in advance what legal issues may be discovered during the process. 

Solicitors would normally charge around £200 per hour or more for their time.  Every time you telephoned or they wrote to you, they would be adding that to their fees. 

A "fixed fee" for conveyancing that can take months to reach completion is operating under very fine margins and so the client contact is minimal. 

The problem is that clients do not want to pay the kind of money that makes hand-holding, being on the other end of the phone in an instant and available for advice whenever you need it, possible.

Consumers have driven the price down, but the result is firms with far too many clients than they can cope with and many unqualified staff doing the admin.   The solicitor in charge of your file, as well as hundreds of other files, will only look at the file at key stages during the process.  While they are waiting for something from a third party, the file will remain in the pending pile, to be chased periodically.

And sticking to this position just further damages the reputation of the profession. £200 is far, far too much money for the level of qualification required. They demand it because they can with people who are in the do-do and have to pay. It also provides people with a level of indemnity  It's not what their time is actually worth, but it certainly goes to their heads to think so.

Then don't use a solicitor. You could always do the work yourself if it's that easy.

Or expect those who are trained and paid to do the job they profess to do for you? 

Ultimately with everything in life (way beyond just legal council) people have 3 options:

1) Pay top dollar and get top levels of service.
2) Pay the minimum possible and get the minimum possible service.
3) Do it yourself.

People often want to pay the prices of option 2 but with the service of option 1 and that often just doesn’t work.

With conveyancing people often pay a small fixed fee and in return get average service and most of the work done by paralegals. If you want rapid service, a solicitor on the end of the phone and them to do 100% of the work then pay for it but it’ll cost several times as much. 

Plenty of people complaining about local specialist solicitors as well. They're often just as bad but with an added layer of self-important arrogance towards their paying clients. 

There are also plenty of people using 'local specialist solicitors' who have a great experience. Your 'all solicitors are terrible' line that you repeat on every remotely relevant thread is starting to make you sound like Crashy....

I've never once said 'all solicitors' are anything. If I have, please let me know where.

Didn't think so...

Bradeyela

TBG01 said:

Define "we need a quick sale". What's that timescale? Is it the usual 8 - 12 weeks it can take for a typical straight forward transaction, or quicker? If quicker can the buyer meet your timescale? Can you respond to all enquiries in a timely manner? Is the title sound?  Basically is everything in place for a quick sale or are you dictating the pace of things without knowing what goes into a transaction?

I spoke to a client yesterday who wanted a quote for a sale and an onward purchase (yet to be found) that "MUST" complete by the end of June. I told him that would be extremely tight and it's something we simply can't and won't guarantee. His response to that was "everyone in the chain has agreed to complete in four weeks so it'll be fine".

When we inevitably can't meet that timescale, who do you think he'll blame? The Solicitors who have told him on several occasions it's unlikely, or those in the chain who have no experience of conveyancing but have told him what he wanted to hear? 

We need to have completed by August at latest but we are only at the beginning putting it on the market end of next week. So we obviously don't have a buyer yet. We are hoping in the current climate it doesn't take to long. We are going in to rented whilst we look for our next property.