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Headlease between Freehold and Underlease

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  • princeofpounds
    princeofpounds Posts: 10,396 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    edited 8 April 2021 at 5:48PM
    You don't know the exact terms of the headlease because you just haven't read it yet? Or because it's not registered and there are no paper documents detailing it? Just because there are different answers to your question depending...
  • Thanks everyone, really helpful. 
    Yes, the former - because we haven't read it yet:) 

  • AdrianC
    AdrianC Posts: 42,189 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Thanks everyone, really helpful. 
    Yes, the former - because we haven't read it yet:) 
    That one's easy to resolve...
  • Indeed!
    We have the Land Registry document which only gives information about the dates and term. 
    The paper document was written in the 1900s and is very hard to read because of the script used. 


  • We are looking to purchase a house, but the conveyances have only provided the "underlease".
    Ground rent will be payable to "Shenstone" - who others have not had a good experience with. 
    This suggests they own the Headlease, else why would they claim ground rent from the underlease?

    Is it not important we establish who owns the Freehold before we buy?

    Conversely, as per OG post, if Shenstone are the Freeholder, who is the middle of that sandwich, and shouldn't we see their headlease- to check for break clauses etc? 
    Unlike the first poster we won't have the Freehold to protect us, - but I still wouldn't want to be the bread around a Shenstone sandwich in any case!

    And if Shenstone are both head lessor and freeholder, well why not tidy up the chain of leases? 
    I have not heard anything about Shenstone that would make me want to be under their coshh twice over.

    Fairly close to exchange of contracts but seriously considering pulling out.


  • eddddy
    eddddy Posts: 18,013 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    We are looking to purchase a house, but the conveyances have only provided the "underlease".
    Ground rent will be payable to "Shenstone" - who others have not had a good experience with. 
    This suggests they own the Headlease, else why would they claim ground rent from the underlease?

    Is it not important we establish who owns the Freehold before we buy?

    Conversely, as per OG post, if Shenstone are the Freeholder, who is the middle of that sandwich, and shouldn't we see their headlease- to check for break clauses etc? 
    Unlike the first poster we won't have the Freehold to protect us, - but I still wouldn't want to be the bread around a Shenstone sandwich in any case!

    And if Shenstone are both head lessor and freeholder, well why not tidy up the chain of leases? 
    I have not heard anything about Shenstone that would make me want to be under their coshh twice over.

    Fairly close to exchange of contracts but seriously considering pulling out.



    It might have been better to start a new thread - people might start answering the original question.

    The Headlease holder will be your landlord. You will only be bound by the terms of the 'underlease'.

    But the 'underlease' might include references to the Headlease - e.g. It might say that you mustn't do anything that puts the Headlease holder in breach of the Headlease. So maybe see what the Headlease says.

    It's unlikely that there are 'break-clauses' in the Headlease. I don't really see why having Shenstone (or whoever) as freeholder and headlease holder would be worse than having them as just the Headlease holder.


    None of this prevents you from buying the freehold (and intermediate headlease) through statutory enfranchisement. The main downside is that you'd have to pay 2 lots of legal fees - the headlease holder's and the freeholder's.


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