Homebuyer Survey - Opinions Please :)

TXC

Hi all

I'm a FTB and have just had my homebuyers survey report back. The house is an end terrace c.1980s and looked in good condition when viewed, I've just had the survey back and my first thought is I've essentially paid for someone to tell me they couldn't properly comment on things "walls covered by wallpaper so prepare for unforseen so rated red", "floors covered by carpet so prepare for unforseen so rated red" - it has thrown up some things that I have no idea if it is just surveyor backside covering or worth pursuing, would be great to get your guys input.

Main points for concern below (worth noting there is no extension to the property so not sure where thats come from)

What would you do?

"There are cracks noted to the extension walls where they meet the house external walls. It is considered likely to be a consequence of differential movement. Differential movement occurs when independent structural components are adjoined at different parts of the building, and often suffer settlement and or minor movement at different rates, and can be more prone to changes in climate and subsoil conditions - It can however, also occur due to a lack of adequate lateral restraint, which is the method in which the extension walls are tied in to the main walls. Whilst these are not likely considered serious it will be prudent to monitor for any progressive movement. If further movement and or cracking does occur I recommend you seek immediate further investigation. (Future repairs may be required). I recommend raking out the defective mortar and replacing with a waterproof expansion joint. General maintenance and repairs will be required. There is evidence of undulation (and or bulging), notably to the rear and gable elevation. Bulging in external walls are a result of decreasing wall stability, these defects can be a symptom of, but not to be considered exhaustive: 1) Longstanding historic and or ongoing progressive movement 2) The original walls being insufficiently thick in comparison to the building height. 3) A lack of restraint between the external walls for example, cavity wall tie failure. There are also a number of minor to moderate cracking and disturbed masonry"

"Therefore the indications to the external walls show signs of considered cavity wall tie failure. Wall tie failure can also sometimes be identified by the horizontal external and or internal cracking that results from the expansion caused by the rusting process, however, can present itself in diagonal external and internal cracking and or bulging brickwork. It is considered the extent of associated concerns to the main walls will likely result in expansive remedial works, which are likely to require remedial action considered above simply the replacing the failed cavity ties. I recommend you instruct a qualified contractor who specialises in cavity wall tie failure to undertake further investigation, and provide report upon the necessary remedial works. This will allow you to understand further the extent of concerns and the remedial action required with associated cost factors. In addition, there should be a lintel/arch over every external window and door opening to support the weight of the wall above. Lintels are often hidden within the structure and are unable to be assessed. It should be duly noted properties of this archetype, can have concerns with lintels, being prone to corrosion failure, and or the absence of lintel support altogether. There are indicating signs that there are potential prominent concerns to some of the supports, if any. There are openings which appear to have moderate cracking and or expansion in the adjacent and above brickwork, commonly associated with lintel concerns. This can affect the surrounding brickwork. If left it can lead to more serious stability issues. It would be prudent to undertake necessary further investigations of the external opening supports and undertake necessary remedial works. General maintenance and repairs will be required. Due to the observations made to the property, and considered potential structural concerns, we would strongly recommend you instruct a qualified structural engineer to undertake appropriate investigations, and a full structural assessment of the property, to ascertain the extent of concerns highlighted, and provide report upon any related remedial proposals."

"However, the more prominent cracks, i.e rear bedroom , which may correspond with the defects noted in Section E4 - External Walls. Due to the observations made to the property, and considered potential structural concerns, we would strongly recommend you instruct a qualified structural engineer to undertake appropriate investigations, and a full structural assessment of the property, to ascertain the extent of concerns highlighted, and provide report upon any related remedial proposals."

SameOldRoundabout

I would probably want a second survey done by a structural engineer. Wall tie failure isn’t necessarily a cheap thing to fix. Surveyors do tend to do a lot of bum covering, but that sounds pretty definitive to me that they believe there are underlying issues with the extension/walls. Have you spoken to the surveyor on the phone?

Just to add, our house is a 1890’s end of terrace with side return, and our surveyor also referred to the back section of the house as an extension....not sure why as it is definitely original! Maybe because they’re attached to the main house in the same way an extension would be so the principle is the same. 

JJR45

Yep, that does not sound like fun.
Full structural, but sounds like it will come back with issues which will not cheap to rectify.
Personally, I would be pulling out or lining up the mother of all discounts.

TXC

Thanks all

Just some more info - the bank have approved the valuation and the mortgage. Im planning to call the surveyor tomorrow for an off the record chat. Apparently the same company can offer me a full structural for another 500£ ...not saying I smell a rat because i do trust the integrity of the report but... 

weeg

That sounds like a load of waffle. The odds on a 1980s house not having lintels is low. And wall tie failures are also pretty uncommon in domestic housing. 'The original walls being insufficiently thick in comparison to the building height'!?! Unless the house is over 4 storeys this is very much not an issue.

Get a structural engineer out. Which should cost you less than £500.

TXC

Hi all - me again

Thanks so much for all your insight!

My plan for the moment is to absolutely get a structural engineer into the property ASAP as it feels like I need a lot more of a steer on the severity of the problem (if any). I think there is a fair amount of "we can't say its not severe so assume it is" at play but I agree the wording aroud structure is quite explicit.

In terms of approaching this with the EA/Vendor, my view was to email the EA today along the lines of:

"The Homebuyer survey has now been returned (please find attached *should I send?*) and has indicated some considerable cause for concern around structure, conscious that this has not featured in any conversations we have had thus far around condition of the property so as suggested by the surveyor I'm planning to appoint a full GSI as soon as possible to understand the scale of problems/repairs needed. I'm appointing the surveyor at my own expense and will be back in touch around next steps once complete."

I was debating adding something at the end around "dependent on findings and scale of repairs I will be back in touch around next steps as concious my current offer does not take price of structural repair into account" - but my thought is that that will just get their backs up and I should wait until I have the full survey before opening negotiations around offer revision or repair bills?

Just a bit of back story to this house. My offer is 10k under asking and I was very clear that this is reflective of a scheme of modernisation that is needed throughout as well as a brand new kitchen (in state of disrepair) and garden (very overgrown and unkempt). I received the contract yesterday as it happens and the purchase price is vastly lower than that agreed (have flagged) - i did some digging online in archives for RM and Zoopla and it turns out that the house was listed c.18 months ago at 15% lower price than current asking (sale obviously did not go through) - I'm not naive and I know that house prices have risen in that time especially in my part of the country (SE), but I'm just wondering whether this is where the lower price on the contract has come from i.e. someone negotiated down from asking to the same % level I have currently and it got to this point and this is why it went no further, same solicitor being used this time round and admin havent updated the price from last time contract was issued on property...do you think this is one to drop into conversation with EA at some point casually i.e. "Is this why the sale did not go through 18 months ago?" 

Re: opening negotiations once structural survey comes through as my offer was not reflective of these issues - is that fair?

TXC

Hi all 

Just bumping this to try and get some advice on above (don't know if thats allowed sorry)

ele_91

I would wait for the full survey before you negotiate, they will be expecting it. You can copy and paste the relevant parts of the homebuyers to the estate agent rather than sending the full document. 

Sounds like they are recycling the contract and have forgotten to amend the price. I would keep that in mind for when the inevitably renegotiate. Do you know why the sale fell through?

TXC

ele_91 said:

I would wait for the full survey before you negotiate, they will be expecting it. You can copy and paste the relevant parts of the homebuyers to the estate agent rather than sending the full document. 

Sounds like they are recycling the contract and have forgotten to amend the price. I would keep that in mind for when the inevitably renegotiate. Do you know why the sale fell through?

Perfect - thank you  
Not sure why the sale fell through - one I'm tempted to ask the EA but will wait until I have full survey back. We've contacted a family friend builder who feels that the survey is being quite dramatic and cavity wall ties are easy enough to put right. Will probably move to the full structural just to put my mind at rest.

kungfu_navs

best to do a full GSI structural survey and wait for the results. Our RICS building survey came back with 10s of thousands of structural repairs needed. the GSI came back with less than £2k of work. 

the GSI will also tell you exactly what you need to do fix the problem.

TXC

Thanks guys

I've had a look on google maps (from present day back to 2008 - ive become obsessed) at the rest of the houses in the terrace and adjoining close (all same build houses) and they all seem to have these exterior wall cracks under sill (in fact mine looks least affected!) - so all ten or so would probably be on the brink of collapse judging by this report.

In two minds about the GSI but I probably will for peace of mind, my experience with RICS is that they're being extra cautious in everything given the volatility of the housing market at the minute to make sure they're not exposed, I couldn't find one willing to value the property as they'd all "suspended that for the moment" so I feel like were this survey done in a more stable market they would have been a bit more forgiving.

I'm really cheesed off re: the former contract price so that isnt helping, but as I say I know house prices in the last 18 months have shifted dramatically - im not exactly buying at the best time for bargains so thats on me I guess!