Which Takes Presidence?

HappyScotsman

My grandmother left her house to her three children 35 years ago. The phrase in her will is something like "my children and their descendants". My understanding is that the deeds still have her as the owner. My aunt still lives in the house, rent free since my dad and uncle lived hundreds of miles away, had no need for the place and had no intention of making their sister homeless.
My uncle passed away 2 years ago leaving everything to his daughter.
My dad passed away 25 years ago leaving everything bar some cash to my mum. When the solicitors totted up his estate they added his third of the house but didn't update the deeds. My mum passed away this year leaving everything to me and my sister. There is no explicit mention of this house in either will. 

So, is the one third share of the house part of my mother's estate or did it pass directly to me and my sister without us realising?

RetSol

As a first step, if you have not already done so, you need to obtain a copy of grandma's will and ascertain exactly what it says about the house. 

RetSol

https://www.gov.uk/search-will-probate

HappyScotsman

RetSol said:

https://www.gov.uk/search-will-probate

I should have mentioned this is a house in Scotland. Gran and father died in Scotland, mother in England.
Getting the will is easy enough - my aunt has it.

gettingtheresometime

RetSol said:

As a first step, if you have not already done so, you need to obtain a copy of grandma's will and ascertain exactly what it says about the house. 

I read the OP as the grandmother died 35 yrs ago and left 1/3 shares to the OP's dad, uncle & aunt & the aunt still lives in the house.

if this is correct, then wouldn't the uncle's 1/3 would have gone to his daughter (the OP's cousin) and the OP has 1/6th of the house as the father's 1/3 would have passed to the OP's mum, whose estate has passed to the OP & their sister?

HappyScotsman

gettingtheresometime said:

if this is correct, then wouldn't the uncle's 1/3 would have gone to his daughter (the OP's cousin) and the OP has 1/6th of the house as the father's 1/3 would have passed to the OP's mum, whose estate has passed to the OP & their sister?

That is the nub of the question: I'm wondering if the 1/3 went directly to me and my sister since gran's will was "and descendants" and skipped my mother entirely since she isn't a descendant. 

theoretica

Because your dad was alive when your gran died the 1/3 house became his and went to your mum according to his will.

xylophone

The phrase in her will is something like "my children and their descendants".

What exactly does Grandma's will say?

Does it leave the property to her children and their descendants who were living at the date of her death?

That is to say  (assuming that you and your sister and your cousin  were born by then), to your father and his children, your uncle and his child and your childless aunt?

Thus 1/6 each back in 1986?

HappyScotsman

theoretica said:

Because your dad was alive when your gran died the 1/3 house became his and went to your mum according to his will.

So "descendants" is a red herring in this context? Gran wrote her will while both my parents were alive. If my mum had gone first, the share of the house would have gone direct to me anyway, if dad had gone first, it would have gone to my mum, then to me. Would it only have been a problem if either of my parents has specifically called out where the share of the house was to go that contradicted "descendants"?

HappyScotsman

xylophone said:

The phrase in her will is something like "my children and their descendants".

What exactly does Grandma's will say?

Does it leave the property to her children and their descendants who were living at the date of her death?

That is to say  (assuming that you and your sister and your cousin  were born by then), to your father and his children, your uncle and his child and your childless aunt?

Thus 1/6 each back in 1986?

Ooo. Interesting. (Aunt has a son.) All of her children and grandchildren were alive when she wrote her will. All of the assumptions and behaviours have been it passes through the generations rather than was split 7 ways when she died.  Certainly uncle and father's estates were calculated on the basis that they had a 1/3 share rather than 1/7.

p00hsticks

HappyScotsman said:

RetSol said:

https://www.gov.uk/search-will-probate

Getting the will is easy enough - my aunt has it.

Presumably a copy, not the original - or did your grandmothers estate not go though probate (or the Scottish equivalent) ?