Disiplinary hearing

Juneyggg

This isn't to do with awards, it's to do with the truth of the matter, I will not have my name marked or integrity questioned when I know I am innocent. 

Undervalued

Juneyggg said:

This isn't to do with awards, it's to do with the truth of the matter, I will not have my name marked or integrity questioned when I know I am innocent. 

You are misunderstanding the purpose of an employment tribunal or civil court.

To dismiss fairly (in law) an employer needs to have a "reasonable belief" that the misconduct took place and dismissal needs to be within the range of sanctions a "reasonable employer" might choose.

If the employer falls short on either of those points the tribunal will likely conclude that you were unfairly dismissed. If so then you will most likely be awarded some compensation following laid down guidelines. However, if in the tribunal's judgement, despite the dismissal being "unfair", you were at least partly to blame then the compensation will be reduced (or even zero under some circumstances).

That is the tribunal's only remit, it is not there to rule on your integrity or even in many respects your "innocence" or otherwise.

In another thread you mentioned that this was all to do with WhatsApp postings made in your own time? Your duty to your employer does not end with your shift. Anything you do that brings them into disrepute can be valid grounds for disciplinary action and plenty of people have been dismissed for unguarded social media posts. That is just a general point as obviously I don't know the specifics of your case.

Juneyggg

Yes I know all of this, however they didn't follow process as I have already said, and as for the messages there was nothing in them to bring anybody into disrupute, and as I wasn't allowed to give my answer to their evidence as they disregard it at both stages so not a fair process in my opinion.

Jude57

@Juneyggg I agree entirely with @Undervalued and just wanted to add a word or two of warning. Please be careful of seeking advice outside your union, even from ACAS helpline. Your union seems to be supporting your Tribunal claim but they could refuse to continue if you aren't following their advice.

Also, given that this situation came about due to social media posts (whatever was posted or intended isn't my business so I can't comment), please be careful of posting about the forthcoming tribunal. I doubt your employer will be scouring social media looking for your posts, but better not take the chance, eh?

justworriedabit

Undervalued said:

MalMonroe said:

During disciplinary action, employers have a specific procedure to follow and you may be wise to contact Acas for some advice, their details are here - https://www.acas.org.uk/contact

Acas also publish online information about disciplinary hearings and your rights - two links as follows:

https://www.acas.org.uk/disciplinary-procedure-step-by-step/step-4-the-disciplinary-hearing

https://www.acas.org.uk/appealing-a-disciplinary-or-grievance-outcome

Good luck. 

As has been pointed out to you before, there are no longer statutory procedures that must be followed to the letter. That changed some years ago.

Employers are expected to try and conduct a fair process and a generally reliable way of doing so if to follow the ACAS guidelines. However an alternative process may also be fair.

There are no longer automatic awards at employment tribunals simply for procedural errors as there once were. Many of these ACAS "help" pages could do with updating!

Good post but I would like to add, call ACAS
They are very good and I've used them a few times the last time being a few years ago.
Like anything it depends on whom you speak with at the org.

As you feel you are in the right, fight it, seek help from ACAS as too many so-called mangers think they can do this, that and the other. Some will try and make you feel small, some will force you to take hols, some may mock you and when pulled up say there were only joking.
Keep your side concise, factual and sounds silly, listen ask them to repeat and speak as little as possible and if you are not sure, so so can't remember atm

Make notes, use them in meetings, etc make bullet points for yourself - take a union rep or another advocate every meeting.
It is difficult taking in a co-worker as they may be picked on later.

Anyone and everyone here, if a manager tells you to do this, that and the other and you feel they are not right, challenge them it does not matter is someone else does what a manger says you work by the rules and trust me, you'd be better off for it.

Mangers have tried to force me to do overtime, take hols, work at another location -  because in my judgement they were
picking on me I challenged them and won every time - yes it can be stressful but trust me it is worse if you cave into some of them.
Good luck

justworriedabit

Juneyggg said:

Yes I did and at appeal I had union,he stated that it has been handled very badly and he is prepared to go to tribunal. 
Still awaiting appeal outcome, however they did come back to offer a chance to discuss the evidence,however I refused as they had ample opportunity before this  stage to discuss the evidence,but they didn't want too.
I just want it all finished with but I won't allow them to treat me so unfairly.

Please try ACAS if you wish.

Sadly at times and I've seen it everywhere I worked these so-called manager have their little gangs and one one turns against you they all do and co-workers to fearful to support you.

lincroft1710

justworriedabit said:

Undervalued said:

MalMonroe said:

During disciplinary action, employers have a specific procedure to follow and you may be wise to contact Acas for some advice, their details are here - https://www.acas.org.uk/contact

Acas also publish online information about disciplinary hearings and your rights - two links as follows:

https://www.acas.org.uk/disciplinary-procedure-step-by-step/step-4-the-disciplinary-hearing

https://www.acas.org.uk/appealing-a-disciplinary-or-grievance-outcome

Good luck. 

As has been pointed out to you before, there are no longer statutory procedures that must be followed to the letter. That changed some years ago.

Employers are expected to try and conduct a fair process and a generally reliable way of doing so if to follow the ACAS guidelines. However an alternative process may also be fair.

There are no longer automatic awards at employment tribunals simply for procedural errors as there once were. Many of these ACAS "help" pages could do with updating!

- take a union rep or another advocate.

If you read the thread, you will see that a union is already involved

Juneyggg

I haven't discussed this with anyone until the outcome,however it is at appeal part and I haven't been advised not to discuss.
As I have stated it was not a fair process,they didn't stick to acas procedures and I am not prepared to just accept it.

polgara

Did I read that you have refused to engage fully in the appeal?  If you want ‘to clear your name’ then surely exploring your concerns in the appeal is the most sensible route? 

Juneyggg

Yes you read correct, my reason for doing so are,
1 I was not advised or told about this so called evidence at investigation stage,so could not defend myself.
2, at disiplinary I said I was more than happy to discuss the evidence they had,however the manager on the disiplinary said he was happy to move away from them,without any discussion, yet again no chance to defend myself, so there you have it,an appeal hearing is what has been wrong in the process etc and I have brought that to their attention.