Claim Form - Defence for My Residential Parking

Umkomaas

limmylom said:

Le_Kirk said:

limmylom said:

Le_Kirk said:

You can use the standard defence template in the NEWBIE sticky - did you see and read that before posting - plus read some threads from other posters about "own space" cases, you can even search the forum using those words.  Also in the NEWBIE sticky (second post) you will find links to "own space" defences that you can add to your paragraphs 2 & 3 in the template.  Edit the standard defence template and show us ONLY the paragraphs 2 & 3 that you edited plus any that you have added.  We don't need to check the work of @Coupon-mad, the lady that wrote it.

I did read the sticky so I was aware to amend paragraphs 2 & 3 but I just don't know what my defence is to be able to edit paragraph 3 to be honest. I don't have my leasehold agreement at the moment but technically, it's true that on both the occasions, my permit was not on display.  Do you think the picture I posted is any use to my defence as the terms are much smaller than rest of the sign?

Have a read of some "own space" defences.  It is important to have a copy of your lease.  If you have rights to park in the lease, no one can take them away from you.  It is also important to know when the PPC was introduced to the area.  Have a look at the landlord and tenant act and then ask the management company when they carried out the consultation with the residents/leaseholder/freeholders and what was the result of the ballot.  If your lease does not specifically state that you must display a permit, then you do not have to.  Leases cannot be overridden by a sign.  You don't submit pictures in a defence, that comes later at witness statement stage.

Ok thanks! And if my lease does state my permit must be on display, does that mean I have no defence?

We don't see many of those!

limmylom

Le_Kirk said:

limmylom said:

Le_Kirk said:

You can use the standard defence template in the NEWBIE sticky - did you see and read that before posting - plus read some threads from other posters about "own space" cases, you can even search the forum using those words.  Also in the NEWBIE sticky (second post) you will find links to "own space" defences that you can add to your paragraphs 2 & 3 in the template.  Edit the standard defence template and show us ONLY the paragraphs 2 & 3 that you edited plus any that you have added.  We don't need to check the work of @Coupon-mad, the lady that wrote it.

I did read the sticky so I was aware to amend paragraphs 2 & 3 but I just don't know what my defence is to be able to edit paragraph 3 to be honest. I don't have my leasehold agreement at the moment but technically, it's true that on both the occasions, my permit was not on display.  Do you think the picture I posted is any use to my defence as the terms are much smaller than rest of the sign?

Have a read of some "own space" defences.  It is important to have a copy of your lease.  If you have rights to park in the lease, no one can take them away from you.  It is also important to know when the PPC was introduced to the area.  Have a look at the landlord and tenant act and then ask the management company when they carried out the consultation with the residents/leaseholder/freeholders and what was the result of the ballot.  If your lease does not specifically state that you must display a permit, then you do not have to.  Leases cannot be overridden by a sign.  You don't submit pictures in a defence, that comes later at witness statement stage.

I had a hunt and found the lease. It’s actually from 1993 so way before I moved in so in another lessee’s name. 

PIt specifically mentions use of the car park with no mention of displaying a permit (see 15. Attached). There’s no further mention of car parking anywhere else in the lease. 

Would I still need to find out when the parking company was hired or is this good enough?

Half_way

Get back to the management company and tell them that they must instruct their agents, the parking company to stop the court action with immediate effect , they are jointly and severally liable for the actions of their agents.

 Thell them that the lease grants parking rights, that can not be removed by a third party such as an un regulated parking company, and if they do not instruct their agents to cncel you may lookinto seeking damages against the management company to the value of what their agents charge for your space ( ie £100 per day multiplied by number of days ppc has been present)

limmylom

Half_way said:

Get back to the management company and tell them that they must instruct their agents, the parking company to stop the court action with immediate effect , they are jointly and severally liable for the actions of their agents.

 Thell them that the lease grants parking rights, that can not be removed by a third party such as an un regulated parking company, and if they do not instruct their agents to cncel you may lookinto seeking damages against the management company to the value of what their agents charge for your space ( ie £100 per day multiplied by number of days ppc has been present)

Does that not sound like a bit of an empty threat though? I don’t see how I could claim damages for over £36k a year multiplied by God knows how many years they’ve been in operation. Ha! 

I would however love to stop this claim in its tracks though before I waste more time I don’t have. So if my Housing Association just don’t care, and if my lease provides a strong case, can I not just send a copy to the parking company to show them how unlikely they are to win and hope they cancel the court claim?

Coupon-mad

No, you can't do that.  You are in a court process and must defend, not go off piste and start randomly sending things to the PPC now (far too late).

Your point #3 tells the Judge what sort of car park it is and why you were there, of course.  You can write that bit yourself.  This section is 'the facts' so give 'the facts'. It's not a local multi-storey car park, nor a case of not paying & displaying, but the Judge doesn't know that unless your defence tells them.

It specifically mentions use of the car park with no mention of displaying a permit (see 15. Attached). There’s no further mention of car parking anywhere else in the lease. 

OK so you have rights of way and also a clear right to park, that is stated without caveat in your 'lease' -  isn't this in fact a tenancy agreement (not a lease)?  Don't call it a 'lease' if it isn't one.  Say what it is and what it says (briefly) in the defence and allege that, even if the court is not minded to agree that you have an unfettered right to park, in the alternative, the permit was always displayed as a courtesy (not obligation) and at all material times it was visible on the dashboard.  Put the C to strict proof to the contrary.

limmylom

Coupon-mad said:

No, you can't do that.  You are in a court process and must defend, not go off piste and start randomly sending things to the PPC now (far too late).

Your point #3 tells the Judge what sort of car park it is and why you were there, of course.  You can write that bit yourself.  This section is 'the facts' so give 'the facts'. It's not a local multi-storey car park, nor a case of not paying & displaying, but the Judge doesn't know that unless your defence tells them.

It specifically mentions use of the car park with no mention of displaying a permit (see 15. Attached). There’s no further mention of car parking anywhere else in the lease. 

OK so you have rights of way and also a clear right to park, that is stated without caveat in your 'lease' -  isn't this in fact a tenancy agreement (not a lease)?  Don't call it a 'lease' if it isn't one.  Say what it is and what it says (briefly) in the defence and allege that, even if the court is not minded to agree that you have an unfettered right to park, in the alternative, the permit was always displayed as a courtesy (not obligation) and at all material times it was visible on the dashboard.  Put the C to strict proof to the contrary.

Thanks for the guidance. 

To answer your question, as far as I am aware, and could easily be wrong, it’s a lease agreement. I’m a leaseholder of the flat I own and the document says Lease of xxxxx (property). 

I didn’t quite understand the following 
“ allege that, even if the court is not minded to agree that you have an unfettered right to park, in the alternative, the permit was always displayed as a courtesy (not obligation) and at all material times it was visible on the dashboard.  Put the C to strict proof to the contrary.”

Would you mind putting that in a sentence I could add to my defence as I don’t understand the “at all material times it was visible on the dashboard” part?

Additionally, can I safely use the rest of your template unaltered? 

Coupon-mad

Ah good, you are a leaseholder with title - you have primacy of contract and right in your lease, that can't be overridden by this git's cardboard signs:

https://www.expressandstar.com/news/2011/03/31/26000-fine-for-parking-firm/

The bit your quote was already written for you to use.  You are alleging it was visible and putting them to prove otherwise (but at the same time saying it wasn't an obligation and displaying a permit was only done as a courtesy).

limmylom

Coupon-mad said:

Ah good, you are a leaseholder with title - you have primacy of contract and right in your lease, that can't be overridden by this git's cardboard signs:

The bit your quote was already written for you to use.  You are alleging it was visible and putting them to prove otherwise (but at the same time saying it wasn't an obligation and displaying a permit was only done as a courtesy).

Ok but this can be easily disproved by the claimant with photographic evidence which I have already seen. There is no permit visible of both occasions (or maybe just the hint of one hidden under an envelope on my dash on one of these occasions). 

Coupon-mad

 (or maybe just the hint of one hidden under an envelope on my dash on one of these occasions). 

That is what I mean, and did they show photos from all angles, showing the seats and centre console, where the permit probably was showing?

limmylom

Coupon-mad said:

 (or maybe just the hint of one hidden under an envelope on my dash on one of these occasions). 

That is what I mean, and did they show photos from all angles, showing the seats and centre console, where the permit probably was showing?

No, just one angle front centre from what I remember.