Buying a share of a freehold?

davidmcn

Why was your conveyancer not aware that you were expecting to buy a share of the freehold? Had you not mentioned it at any point?

NameUnavailable

So, as it stands you have just bought a leasehold, although you paid for a leasehold + share of freehold.

Hopefully the vendor will just agree to transfer the share of freehold to you - they could be 'clever' and keep it or ask you for more money to buy it!

I'd be having a rant to my conveyancer (assuming it was made clear that the property was sold on a share of freehold basis) and holding them liable if you end up out of pocket. Start the formal complaints procedure.

proformance

davidmcn said:

Why was your conveyancer not aware that you were expecting to buy a share of the freehold? Had you not mentioned it at any point?

Well, it was part of the Memorandum of Sale from the agent to the solicitor, and we just assumed everything was in order. I have no hard evidence of us ever specifying the terms, but similarly, we never specified leasehold either. We just assumed he would pick it all up....

NameUnavailable said:

So, as it stands you have just bought a leasehold, although you paid for a leasehold + share of freehold.

Hopefully the vendor will just agree to transfer the share of freehold to you - they could be 'clever' and keep it or ask you for more money to buy it!

I'd be having a rant to my conveyancer (assuming it was made clear that the property was sold on a share of freehold basis) and holding them liable if you end up out of pocket. Start the formal complaints procedure.

The agent and owner have both categorically said that the transfer of the "share of freehold" SHOULD be done, but have said that WE (on our side) need to initiate.

But our conveyancer is saying itisn;t his job, nor is he qualified... So do we have to pay for another company?

davidmcn

proformance said:

davidmcn said:

Why was your conveyancer not aware that you were expecting to buy a share of the freehold? Had you not mentioned it at any point?

Well, it was part of the Memorandum of Sale from the agent to the solicitor, and we just assumed everything was in order.

But our conveyancer is saying itisn;t his job, nor is he qualified... So do we have to pay for another company?

This is routine stuff, I'm not sure why they would think it isn't their job to do it. If it was in the memo of sale they don't have much excuse for not picking up on it (and at the very least saying they're not qualified to deal with it, if that's really the case). I would make a complaint to the firm.

AdrianC

Since the freehold is owned by a limited company, there's no conveyancing required - the company secretary of the limited company simply transfers the vendor's shareholding in the company to you.

Remember, you're buying two different things...
A leasehold flat, for which the conveyancing has been done. 
A shareholding in a limited company, for which there is no conveyancing required.

princeofpounds

OK, if it was part of the memorandum of sale, it is your conveyancer's fault. They should have been aware that there was a transaction of a share of freehold involved. You should raise a complaint and ask them to fix it. If they continue to say they are not competent to do so, then you should tell them that they should have notified you at the time, and that they should seek the services of a competent legal colleague at their own expense to get it done.

NB: the exception to this is if the conveyancer made it very clear to you in a quote or similar communication that they would only be transferring the leasehold title - that might give them wiggle room, even though it probably falls short of professional standards.

proformance

AdrianC said:

Since the freehold is owned by a limited company, there's no conveyancing required - the company secretary of the limited company simply transfers the vendor's shareholding in the company to you.

Remember, you're buying two different things...
A leasehold flat, for which the conveyancing has been done. 
A shareholding in a limited company, for which there is no conveyancing required.

This is a helpful breakdown, thank you.

UPDATE: I've just re-checked the MOS and there actually was NO mention of the leaseholding/freeholding share structure at all. So I made an error when I previously posted that it WAS explicitly stated in the MOS.

However, from the essence of your post, isn't it irrelevant whether there was specific mention of the "share of freehold" ambition/structure, as they are two entirely separate processes and NOT part of the conveyancing? 

So, perhaps it is just a case of me getting in touch with either/both the selling party and/or the other freeholder sharer and arrange it ourselves without the need for solicitors at all?

AdrianC

proformance said:

AdrianC said:

Since the freehold is owned by a limited company, there's no conveyancing required - the company secretary of the limited company simply transfers the vendor's shareholding in the company to you.

Remember, you're buying two different things...
A leasehold flat, for which the conveyancing has been done. 
A shareholding in a limited company, for which there is no conveyancing required.

This is a helpful breakdown, thank you.

UPDATE: I've just re-checked the MOS and there actually was NO mention of the leaseholding/freeholding share structure at all. So I made an error when I previously posted that it WAS explicitly stated in the MOS.

So when did your solicitor first find out about the share in the freehold?

However, from the essence of your post, isn't it irrelevant whether there was specific mention of the "share of freehold" ambition/structure, as they are two entirely separate processes and NOT part of the conveyancing? 

So, perhaps it is just a case of me getting in touch with either/both the selling party and/or the other freeholder sharer and arrange it ourselves without the need for solicitors at all?

Exactly that.

The owner of the freehold isn't changing.
The owner of the freehold was, is, and will be "Freehold of Building Ltd".
All that's happening is that one shareholder in "Freehold of Building Ltd" is transferring their shareholding to a new shareholder. Because it's a private limited company, the register of shareholders is run by the CoSec.
You can find out who the directors are by looking on Companies House's website.

proformance

AdrianC said:

proformance said:

AdrianC said:

Since the freehold is owned by a limited company, there's no conveyancing required - the company secretary of the limited company simply transfers the vendor's shareholding in the company to you.

Remember, you're buying two different things...
A leasehold flat, for which the conveyancing has been done. 
A shareholding in a limited company, for which there is no conveyancing required.

This is a helpful breakdown, thank you.

UPDATE: I've just re-checked the MOS and there actually was NO mention of the leaseholding/freeholding share structure at all. So I made an error when I previously posted that it WAS explicitly stated in the MOS.

So when did your solicitor first find out about the share in the freehold?

However, from the essence of your post, isn't it irrelevant whether there was specific mention of the "share of freehold" ambition/structure, as they are two entirely separate processes and NOT part of the conveyancing? 

So, perhaps it is just a case of me getting in touch with either/both the selling party and/or the other freeholder sharer and arrange it ourselves without the need for solicitors at all?

Exactly that.

The owner of the freehold isn't changing.
The owner of the freehold was, is, and will be "Freehold of Building Ltd".
All that's happening is that one shareholder in "Freehold of Building Ltd" is transferring their shareholding to a new shareholder. Because it's a private limited company, the register of shareholders is run by the CoSec.
You can find out who the directors are by looking on Companies House's website.

Phew. Panic averted. Thanks so much for your help. I am truly grateful and indebted. 

My conveyancer could not even explain this to us.

proformance

Hi all,

Sorry to revive this as I know it's quite an old thread, but I am still having issues getting this resolved by our initially instructed solicitors (who did the sale).

Since March when we completed, we have been trying to get hold of them to process the transfer of the "share of freehold" from the old owners to us.

Having said that, the one other freeholder (the owner above us) has also been really unhelpful as things have transpired. Apparently our solicitors sent him an email last month that he has basically ignored.

Instead, when I asked him if he had heard from them, he just replied saying "Sorry, I forgot to. Just tell them to issue the execution of share transfer from the old owners". 

It seems like trying to persist with the old solicitors and get them to complete what we paid them to do is like banging our heads against the wall. They won't even answer our calls anymore.

Is it possible we can advise a new solicitor? Or are these guys legally obliged to help us here? We surely don't want to have to pay AGAIN for a service which was supposed to be provided in the first place?

Thanks in advance,

Z