Internal transfer/ new contract rights

MrSolletico

So long story short(ish);
 I have been employed since November 2017 at company A as a supervisor, I currently have an ongoing grievance against others about bullying which is being dealt with by my union. I have felt I can no longer work in the current position so have found a better position ‘within the company’ (company applied for it and successful. 

I have been told by the manager of company B plus recruiters and HR that it’s an internal transfer as company A & B are subsidiaries of the parent company.

However this week I have been issued a new payroll number, asked to complete new starter forms and questionnaires which are identical (apart from company name). I questioned this and was told HR was separate for both Company A & B despite them using similar email addresses. I am due to start with the new role at Company B later this week.

Q: is this right or is there something dodgy going on here?

In addition I have been issued a new contract with company B, the contract for the most part is similar to company A.
The new contract states that I have continuous  service since November 2017.

However annual leave entitlement has been reduced from 25 days to 20 days. I have asked the manager at company B if this is right and he said yes, employees at this site including supervisors receive the legal minimum 5.6 weeks (20 days) and I am starting a different role so need to sign the new contract and will not Lee any accrued benefits.

Q: is this right or as a continuous employee am I entitled to keep my 25 days leave?

Q: should I have received a CAF form rather than a new contract?

Q: is it right that I have been ‘re-hired’ as a new starter with all the forms?

Q, can I request additional points to contract such as yearly pay rise in line with inflation?

Originally the new contract and offer letters had 3 months probation but I pointed out under continuous service I should not have probation, HR and manager of Company B agreed and this was removed from the contract and offer letters.

I have tried to look online and seek advice but to no avail and have held off signing the contract until I know what I’m doing.

Something just doesn’t feel right so any help would be appreciated.

MrSolletico

Q: Also, what are my rights as a continuous employee in this circumstances as a ‘transfer’ to a new role.

74jax

When I transferred within my company, it was from a local regional office to the group holding company, I recieved a new contract too. My previous one was with company name regional office, this new contract was with company name plc.
It clearly stated I had continuous service from my start date with my first position. 
At interview we discussed salary and on offer we discussed holidays, bonus, notice period etc. 
We negotiated on holidays and bonus (I got what I wanted) but they wouldn't shift on notice period (went from 1 month to 3)but I accepted it.
What did you discuss at interview and on offer prior to accepting? Was any of it via email or all verbal? 

getmore4less

Q: Also, what are my rights as a continuous employee in this circumstances as a ‘transfer’ to a new role.

The new contract states that I have continuous  service since November 2017.

That is the key term as it has documented your continuous service 

That protects your statutory rights.

Everything else is negotiation.

Contract T&C can change all the time terms added changed or taken away after consultation salary is an bvvious one..

This is a voluntary move to part of the organization that has different terms to your existing one so yo are really in a Yes/NO situation but can try to negotiate 

Chances of getting any service related contractual benefit transferred is probably slim.

MrSolletico

I wasn’t given a chance to negotiate anything in interview, I asked if my accrued benefits would be transferred and was flat out told no.

when HR called to offer me the job I didn’t even get a chance to say yes, it was ‘You’ve for the job we have started the transfer process’ I asked for the T&Cs of the contract but was told I would not be receiving anything until transfer date was confirmed. I received these documents on Thursday a week before my transfer date and told to sign and get them back ASAP.

it just didn’t sound right that I wa seeing transferred but was also being treated as a new starter. When others in my organisation were transferred from other subsidiaries to company A they were TUPED.

is it too late now to try and negotiate that they have already set up new payroll and issued the documents? Or as I have not signed them yet can I negotiate the terms?

getmore4less

Very different to  TUPE situation(where the contract in effect transfers with the person).

You applied for and got offered the job, you chose to accept without checking the T&C of the job.

Accrued benefits in one part of a company do not have to carry over 

You effectively resigned your old post for the new one.

Undoing a transfer you have accepted might mean resigning and hoping the old post will take you back.

If they do let you change back you don't want to work there any more so that's not going to be a long term solution

MrSolletico

It wasn’t a case of accepting the job without checking the T&C, I asked to see the T&Cs before accepting but was told I would get them once a transfer date has been confirmed.

As I stated previously I haven’t accepted formally or verbally the post, was just assumed I had accepted.

I’m still in contract with the first company until later this week

getmore4less

Tell them you are not happy with the terms of the new job you are not taking up the offer.

How long have you sat on the offer since getting the contract with the unacceptable terms.

Savvy_Sue

MrSolletico said:

is it too late now to try and negotiate that they have already set up new payroll and issued the documents? Or as I have not signed them yet can I negotiate the terms?

You can try negotiating the terms, but you need to decide before you start whether you'd accept what they've offered, or would prefer to move on to somewhere completely different. 

Because the deal you've got may not be what you want, but the continuous service is a good thing and worth a lot in terms of employment rights. 

Bear in mind that if you start a new job with more holiday than your colleagues, or anything else non-standard, that may lead to resentment. And it may also 'mark your card' as a trouble maker. I'm not saying it will, but it might. 

I think as you want to get away from where you are, I'd be minded to accept, and if the extra leave was that important I'd be job hunting. 

One other question, is there any chance to accrue TOIL? Technically I can build up enough hours to take another 13 days' leave - there are quite tight restrictions on when I take it, and these days I rarely manage it, but it's there if necessary. 

MrSolletico

Thanks all for your answers, my union is looking into it a bit more.

I was more concerned by the fact I’m being treated  as a new starter and resupplying everything the central HR has on file (HR that is used both by company A and company .

Yea annual leave is important to create a work life balance as in this day and age we should be working to live not living to work, however that being said if less leave was the only issue I wouldn’t turn the offer down, it was just an additional concern ontop of the main issues mentioned above.

in response to Savvy_Sue, no we don’t get toil unfortunately. In terms of being a troublemaker if you call someone fighting for a fair contract and terms troublemaking then yes I am, goes hand in hand with why I have got my current work place all to join the same union and is pending recognition with ACAS.

in this day and age the giant company’s like the one I work for should be treating employees fairly including fair leave entitlement, full sick pay and yearly pay rises in line with inflation.

Thrugelmir

Not unusual for different subsidiaries to operate under different contractual terms. Often this will be historical. Following a takeover for example. You work for the Company you are contracted too. Previous T&C's have no bearing when moving between group companies voluntarily.