I 'owe' PayPal £190

Belenus

I want to know all the possible consequences of refusing to pay PayPal £190 before I make a decision on what to do.

If I don't pay then clearly I will lose my PayPal account and my wife will probably lose hers too. That doesn't bother us.

As far as I can see from googling, PayPal will after 90 days sell the debt on and I may face six years of letters and phone calls from a debt collector. I'm not bothered about that as I will just ignore them.

Can PayPal affect my credit rating by posting this debt with the various agencies? That does bother me.

Is my eBay account also at risk? That does bother me. I don't plan to sell anymore but I do buy regularly.

What else could happen?

I don't want to discuss what I could have done differently in arriving at this situation as what is done is done. I just want to know what the consequences of not paying are so I can decide if I am better off paying and swallowing the loss of £190.

Here is the background anyway.

I sold a laptop for circa £180. The buyer raised a SNAD claim. I accepted the return and paid eBay for a return label. According to Royal Mail tracking, the laptop was delivered to a neighbour that doesn't appear to exist. I never received it and Royal Mail can't help.

Dear xxxxx
I’m sorry to hear of the problem you’ve had with a Royal Mail Tracked Returns item, reference number xxxxxx. I can fully understand your frustration that your item hasn’t been received when our records show the item was delivered.
I’ve checked the tracking record and can see your item was delivered to neighbour on xx.02.21.I have, however, reported this issue to the manager of the delivery office and have recorded your complaint under reference xxxx
Unfortunately, due to the time that’s passed it’s unlikely the postperson will remember how the item was delivered.

eBay claim that delivering to a near neighbour counts as delivering to me and have refunded the buyer and have charged my PayPal account with circa £190.

PayPal have sent this to me:

eBay ruled in favour of the buyer in your recent dispute in the eBay Resolution Centre and sent a refund of £xxx GBP to xxxxx
When eBay handles a file in favour of the buyer, an immediate refund is made to the buyer in accordance with the eBay resolution procedure. At the time of the refund, you didn't have enough money in your PayPal account to cover the amount. eBay therefore refunded the buyer and transferred the corresponding claim to PayPal, which may result in your account showing an amount owing to us. Any payment to PayPal will relieve you of the original debt to eBay.
We're here to help you. If you have any questions regarding this message, please contact us via the form on the PayPal website.

soolin

AFAIK paypal have never taken anyone to court and without going to court your credit rating cannot be affected.

As you say they will chase you for the money and obviously you can’t use your account as as soon as there is money in there it will taken for the debt. and personally I would not risk your wife using hers for the same reason. 

As for EBay you can’t sell on there unless you have PayPal until such time you are switched to managed payments. You can buy, but some sellers only allow PayPal , especially for BIN listings, although once everyone is switched across to managed payments then you can pay using a card. 

custardy

Tracked can be delivered to neighbours unless you have an opt out from leave with neighbour.
you need to get onto RM locally. What is the time scales here? They would have had GPS as to where it was delviered.
What do you mean neighbour who doesnt exist?

Belenus

Thanks Soolin. If can live with all that. 

Belenus

Custardy, the timescales are now over one month. 

The tracking showed delivered to A (just A and not a full name) at number xx? 

There is a number xx but there is no A or anyone with a name beginning with A living there or at any other near neighbour.

I know the people who live at number xx. We have often taken parcels for each other and I trust them fully. The same goes for all my near neighbours. We are just five houses in a small cul de sac off a larger development and we all know each other well and get on well. I think it is extremely unlikely that one of them has received and kept the laptop. The laptop was disassembled and sold sold for spares and repairs so it is fairly useless for most people.

Belenus

I am considering contacting PayPal and advising them to recover their money from eBay as it is eBay's policies that have created this situation.

If I had arranged the return I would probably have booked a fully insured service with signature required and I would have accept responsibility for the process.

However I paid eBay/Packlink. They used Royal Mail non signed for and they are washing their hands of any responsibility for the non return.

Penguin_

Belenus said:

Custardy, the timescales are now over one month. 

The tracking showed delivered to A (just A and not a full name) at number xx? 

There is a number xx but there is no A or anyone with a name beginning with A living there or at any other near neighbour.

I know the people who live at number xx. We have often taken parcels for each other and I trust them fully. The same goes for all my near neighbours. We are just five houses in a small cul de sac off a larger development and we all know each other well and get on well. I think it is extremely unlikely that one of them has received and kept the laptop. The laptop was disassembled and sold sold for spares and repairs so it is fairly useless for most people.

I've found that my local posties are just scribbling something down when delivering a tracked item as due to Covid the recipient doesn't sign anything. 

custardy

Belenus said:

I am considering contacting PayPal and advising them to recover their money from eBay as it is eBay's policies that have created this situation.

If I had arranged the return I would probably have booked a fully insured service with signature required and I would have accept responsibility for the process.

However I paid eBay/Packlink. They used Royal Mail non signed for and they are washing their hands of any responsibility for the non return.

You need to be more aggressive with RM.
Get in touch/visit your local office to chase up who and where it was actually delivered . I assume you checked it was delivered from your local office?
Not the first time a return address has been modified to get a delivered scan.

RFW

soolin said:

AFAIK paypal have never taken anyone to court and without going to court your credit rating cannot be affected.

That's probably true, I've never heard of it either, and seems unlikely for a small amount (obv £200 isn't a small amount to everyone, but it's the equivalent (probably much less so) of dropping a penny on the pavement to Paypal). One more recent development is the debt collectors, when the debt is sold on, have been known to take court action. If that happens and the OP defends it then they're unlikely to hear from them again. They don't seem to ever appear in court once they've been defended, so the cases time out. The worst thing to do is ignore it as that can lead to a judgement and all that goes with that.

As far as debt collectors they can call and write. You can ask them not to call and they have to stop.

Try a local Facebook group for the missing parcel. I had one that was signed for at a neighbour but they'd gone to the next street, not next door!