What kind of a Will does this family need?

Casper7

Hi
A family of a Mom, Dad, Son1, Son2
House is mortgaged jointly between Dad and Son1 (Dad is actually making the payments)
Mom is living in the house, Son2 lives outside the house.
Dad has money in bank, Mom has money in a separate account. Both of them have less £50k in the bank and nothing valuable else.
This family wants the surviving spouse to inherit the gone one. When both are gone, they want the estate to be split between the 2 sons. They also trust that if any of the sons inherits all, he will share it with his brother..(let's agree on this).
So from the above facts, do they really need a Will? It seems their situation is not complex, or what you you think? What happens usually if this family had no Will from the Dad or Mom?

getmore4less

how is the house owned, joint or tenants in common?

Are mum and dad married?

Do sons have kids?

swingaloo2

Casper7 said:

Hi
A family of a Mom, Dad, Son1, Son2
Are mum and dad married?
House is mortgaged jointly between Dad and Son1 (Dad is actually making the payments)
Who's name is the house in, how is it held, joint tenants/tenants in common?
What happens if son 1 wants to move out and get a mortgage on a property of his own?
Mom is living in the house, Son2 lives outside the house.
Dad has money in bank, Mom has money in a separate account.
Both of them have less £50k in the bank and nothing valuable else.
This family wants the surviving spouse to inherit the gone one. When both are gone, they want the estate to be split between the 2 sons.
They also trust that if any of the sons inherits all, he will share it with his brother..(let's agree on this).
If the estate is to be split between the sons how can one of the sons inherit all?
So from the above facts, do they really need a Will? It seems their situation is not complex, or what you you think?
So what will happen if perhaps one of the couple pass away and the remaining one decides to remarry? Or the remaining one decides to sell the house and son is on the joint mortgage?
What happens usually if this family had no Will from the Dad or Mom?

A will is definately needed. In any situation a will is always desirable.

naedanger

Casper7 said:

Hi
A family of a Mom, Dad, Son1, Son2
House is mortgaged jointly between Dad and Son1 (Dad is actually making the payments)
Mom is living in the house, Son2 lives outside the house.
Dad has money in bank, Mom has money in a separate account. Both of them have less £50k in the bank and nothing valuable else.
This family wants the surviving spouse to inherit the gone one. When both are gone, they want the estate to be split between the 2 sons. They also trust that if any of the sons inherits all, he will share it with his brother..(let's agree on this).
So from the above facts, do they really need a Will? It seems their situation is not complex, or what you you think? What happens usually if this family had no Will from the Dad or Mom?

If you are saying the family are certain they will be on good terms after any death, and will comply with the arrangement you describe regardless of what actually happens (e.g. under any intestacy rules) and there are no other as close or closer relatives then Wills are not as essential as they would be if it was anticipated that the post death arrangement would be contentious.

Nevertheless Wills are still strongly advisable. It removes any risk of future upset or ambiguity (or even that someone wishes to renege on any informal agreement), and will make the process of administering the estate simpler and less costly. 

It sounds quite simple other than to consider what happens when only the sons survive. What is to happen to the house, for example if son1 wishes to continue living in it but son2 wants his share of the inheritance (perhaps to put towards his own house)?

Also what happens if son1 and son2 have children, and/or die before both parents? This is the sort of detail that a Will would routinely cover.

Marcon

Casper7 said:

Hi
A family of a Mom, Dad, Son1, Son2
House is mortgaged jointly between Dad and Son1 (Dad is actually making the payments)
Mom is living in the house, Son2 lives outside the house.
Dad has money in bank, Mom has money in a separate account. Both of them have less £50k in the bank and nothing valuable else.
This family wants the surviving spouse to inherit the gone one. When both are gone, they want the estate to be split between the 2 sons. They also trust that if any of the sons inherits all, he will share it with his brother..(let's agree on this).
So from the above facts, do they really need a Will? It seems their situation is not complex, or what you you think? What happens usually if this family had no Will from the Dad or Mom?

Never forget that grief can produce unexpected reactions.  What is the reluctance to do the sensible thing and have each family member make a will? It makes life so much simpler than dying intestate, avoids so many arguments, and ensures that the survivors know what the dear departed actually wanted to happen, as opposed to the game of guessing (always with utter conviction and frequently completely at odds with what other people were sure about) what the intention was. 

Just get on and do it instead of debating whether something entirely sensible is a good idea. The mortgage arrangements alone make this complicated.

Keep_pedalling

The exact details of their wills should be sorted through a solicitor, who will draw up an appropriate will after gathering all the relevant information and covering all the what if situations that could occur. The son who is part owner of the home also needs a will in place.

xylophone

What is is shown at the Land Registry as to ownership of the property?

Has a Form A restriction been recorded?

Do either/both of the sons have wives/children?

Casper7

getmore4less said:

how is the house owned, joint or tenants in common?

Are mum and dad married?

Do sons have kids?

House mortgaged jointly (dad and son1)

Mum and Dad are married

Son1 is single, Son 2 is married and has children

naedanger said:

Casper7 said:

Hi
A family of a Mom, Dad, Son1, Son2
House is mortgaged jointly between Dad and Son1 (Dad is actually making the payments)
Mom is living in the house, Son2 lives outside the house.
Dad has money in bank, Mom has money in a separate account. Both of them have less £50k in the bank and nothing valuable else.
This family wants the surviving spouse to inherit the gone one. When both are gone, they want the estate to be split between the 2 sons. They also trust that if any of the sons inherits all, he will share it with his brother..(let's agree on this).
So from the above facts, do they really need a Will? It seems their situation is not complex, or what you you think? What happens usually if this family had no Will from the Dad or Mom?

If you are saying the family are certain they will be on good terms after any death, and will comply with the arrangement you describe regardless of what actually happens (e.g. under any intestacy rules) and there are no other as close or closer relatives then Wills are not as essential as they would be if it was anticipated that the post death arrangement would be contentious.

Nevertheless Wills are still strongly advisable. It removes any risk of future upset or ambiguity (or even that someone wishes to renege on any informal agreement), and will make the process of administering the estate simpler and less costly. 

It sounds quite simple other than to consider what happens when only the sons survive. What is to happen to the house, for example if son1 wishes to continue living in it but son2 wants his share of the inheritance (perhaps to put towards his own house)?

Also what happens if son1 and son2 have children, and/or die before both parents? This is the sort of detail that a Will would routinely cover.

The family wants the house to be for the Sons. Now Son2 is married and living at his own home, so the house would be for Son1 to live in. Yes, there is a chance that Son2 would say: (I need some money, so we should sell the house).
But the main thing about this family house is it is still mortgaged. So if the dad passes away, the bank would look at Son1 salary and see he can't afford the mortgage, therefore they would need to sell house. (The joint mortgage they've got was because both salaries of Dad and Son1 made buying the house affordable.)

xylophone said:

What is is shown at the Land Registry as to ownership of the property?

Has a Form A restriction been recorded?

Do either/both of the sons have wives/children?

Both Dad and Son1 names shown on the LR ownership. No Form A restriction recorded.

Son1 who jointly owns the house with Dad (mortgaged) is single. Son2 is married with children and living at his own home.

Mojisola

Casper7 said:

Both Dad and Son1 names shown on the LR ownership. No Form A restriction recorded.

That suggests the property is owned as 'joint tenants' - both of them own all the house so that when one dies, the other continues to own all the house. 

Mother and second brother would have no claim on the house and it can't be left to anyone in a will.

Casper7

Mojisola said:

Casper7 said:

Both Dad and Son1 names shown on the LR ownership. No Form A restriction recorded.

That suggests the property is owned as 'joint tenants' - both of them own all the house so that when one dies, the other continues to own all the house. 

Mother and second brother would have no claim on the house and it can't be left to anyone in a will.

The family plan is if the Dad dies, Son1 - who will eventually owns the house and capable to keep monthly mortgage payment - will keep living in the house with his mother. if he was to get married and moved out, the mother would stay in the house.
If the house is big for the mother, they would sell it, and get her a place to live it.
In summary: it is the Dad & Mom house as long as they are alive. after they die the house goes to both sons to benefit from it. whether by renting it, or buying the other party share, or sell it and every son gets %50 of the money. That is the wish of both parents and the sons said they will honour this wish.

Mojisola

Casper7 said:

Mojisola said:

That suggests the property is owned as 'joint tenants' - both of them own all the house so that when one dies, the other continues to own all the house. 

Mother and second brother would have no claim on the house and it can't be left to anyone in a will.

The family plan is if the Dad dies, Son1 - who will eventually owns the house and capable to keep monthly mortgage payment - will keep living in the house with his mother. if he was to get married and moved out, the mother would stay in the house.
If the house is big for the mother, they would sell it, and get her a place to live it.
In summary: it is the Dad & Mom house as long as they are alive. after they die the house goes to both sons to benefit from it. whether by renting it, or buying the other party share, or sell it and every son gets %50 of the money. That is the wish of both parents and the sons said they will honour this wish.

That may be the plan but the type of ownership father and brother have means that the house will be wholly owned by the survivor.
I hope your parents are seeing a good solicitor to make their wills who will be able to advise on what needs to be done to achieve their wishes.