Do you own physical gold as an investment?

aaj123

masonic said:

aaj123 said:

Thrugelmir said:

India it seems will be the first country to legally ban ownership of cryptocurrency. More to follow? 

It will be the test case that will set an example for others of why such a ban is useless and counterproductive. All it will do is open up ability of the influential to launder and evade taxes while the govt there will be completely clueless one how to track these illegal flows without having any KYC information from local exchanges. This is why a thinking government will not ban Bitcoin. 

It's an environmental crime, which can't be allowed to continue unchecked. You could argue the war on drugs has been futile, yet governments around the world have persisted in that for decades.

This is the sort of tripe shouted by those who need to cope with missing out on gains they missed after having the opportunity. Never heard them shout about gold mining. 

Type_45

davelewis said:

I own an ounce of gold. I bought it for my 40th birthday from 'Bullion by post'. I love it! I don't consider it an investment but something I just 'wanted'. I paid around £860 for it and I'm now aged 46!

Are you/were you concerned that you had an expensive item delivered to your house and that hackers can access Bullion by Post's database and know where you and your gold live?

Such a hack happened recently to buyers of a cryptocurrency device made by a company called Ledger. There are now thousands of owners of crypto who have this device and their name, address, phone number and email are floating around the internet for all to see. 

cricidmuslibale

masonic said:

aaj123 said:

Thrugelmir said:

India it seems will be the first country to legally ban ownership of cryptocurrency. More to follow? 

It will be the test case that will set an example for others of why such a ban is useless and counterproductive. All it will do is open up ability of the influential to launder and evade taxes while the govt there will be completely clueless one how to track these illegal flows without having any KYC information from local exchanges. This is why a thinking government will not ban Bitcoin. 

It's an environmental crime, which can't be allowed to continue unchecked. You could argue the war on drugs has been futile, yet governments around the world have persisted in that for decades.

I completely agree that any environmental crime needs to be severely discouraged; after all we only have one planet Earth and far too many human beings are currently damaging it significantly, even though in many cases this is probably not intentional. However I would strongly argue that the war on drugs has largely been not merely futile but seriously counterproductive; in my opinion, a lot of drug-related crime could be made far less profitable were governments to, at the very least, decriminalise all but the most dangerous drugs and allow these decriminalised drugs to be suitably taxed and sold in licensed premises!

Thrugelmir

aaj123 said:

Thrugelmir said:

India it seems will be the first country to legally ban ownership of cryptocurrency. More to follow? 

It will be the test case that will set an example for others of why such a ban is useless and counterproductive. All it will do is open up ability of the influential to launder and evade taxes while the govt there will be completely clueless one how to track these illegal flows without having any KYC information from local exchanges. This is why a thinking government will not ban Bitcoin. 

And when people need to covert BitCoin into hard cash (Rupees) what happens then. A rather simplistic view of the world. Not least the increasing levels of oversight that tax authorities have over individuals affairs. Money doesn't grow on trees. 

Type_45

Indians should sell up asap.

They may already be doing that judging by the recent price dip of Bitcoin.

aaj123

Thrugelmir said:And when people need to covert BitCoin into hard cash (Rupees) what happens then. A rather simplistic view of the world. Not least the increasing levels of oversight that tax authorities have over individuals affairs. Money doesn't grow on trees. 

Looks like you are completely unaware how much of the Indian economy is already conducted in cash. Why do you think a full blown demonetization exercise was even considered and implemented a few years back there (though it was disastrous and met no objectives)? Nope - there is absolutely no problem for anyone with Bitcoin to covert to rupees when needed, just as entire properties change hands there in 80% cash. And ofcourse a reference price for such transactions is not an issue either given that markets globally have a clearly visible price 24X7.

cricidmuslibale

Thrugelmir said:

aaj123 said:

Thrugelmir said:

India it seems will be the first country to legally ban ownership of cryptocurrency. More to follow? 

It will be the test case that will set an example for others of why such a ban is useless and counterproductive. All it will do is open up ability of the influential to launder and evade taxes while the govt there will be completely clueless one how to track these illegal flows without having any KYC information from local exchanges. This is why a thinking government will not ban Bitcoin. 

And when people need to covert BitCoin into hard cash (Rupees) what happens then. A rather simplistic view of the world. Not least the increasing levels of oversight that tax authorities have over individuals affairs. Money doesn't grow on trees. 

That's very true but if you know what you're doing in the garden and have the right soil to grow them, a suitable selection of fruit trees can produce copious amounts of different, delicious fruits for harvesting in the summer / autumn, depending on the type of fruit, and this can save you a significant amount of money that you might otherwise spend buying fruit at your local supermarket or fruit seller! 

David713

Type_45 said:

davelewis said:

I own an ounce of gold. I bought it for my 40th birthday from 'Bullion by post'. I love it! I don't consider it an investment but something I just 'wanted'. I paid around £860 for it and I'm now aged 46!

Are you/were you concerned that you had an expensive item delivered to your house and that hackers can access Bullion by Post's database and know where you and your gold live?

Such a hack happened recently to buyers of a cryptocurrency device made by a company called Ledger. There are now thousands of owners of crypto who have this device and their name, address, phone number and email are floating around the internet for all to see. 

Credit card companies can and do get hacked so criminals could possibly obtain details of any purchases you made.
Airlines get hacked so burglars may know when you are out of the country and your house possibly empty.
Email and internet providers often get hacked leading to customers personal details being compromised.
People's personal computers often get hacked,
etc
etc.

Yes, systems get hacked on a regular basis but does that mean no-one should ever use a company that stores information electronically?
If everyone stopped spending money because they were afraid of a system getting hacked, very little would actually be bought and sold anywhere in the world.

Type_45

David713 said:

Type_45 said:

davelewis said:

I own an ounce of gold. I bought it for my 40th birthday from 'Bullion by post'. I love it! I don't consider it an investment but something I just 'wanted'. I paid around £860 for it and I'm now aged 46!

Are you/were you concerned that you had an expensive item delivered to your house and that hackers can access Bullion by Post's database and know where you and your gold live?

Such a hack happened recently to buyers of a cryptocurrency device made by a company called Ledger. There are now thousands of owners of crypto who have this device and their name, address, phone number and email are floating around the internet for all to see. 

Credit card companies can and do get hacked so criminals could possibly obtain details of any purchases you made.
Airlines get hacked so burglars may know when you are out of the country and your house possibly empty.
Email and internet providers often get hacked leading to customers personal details being compromised.
People's personal computers often get hacked,
etc
etc.

Yes, systems get hacked on a regular basis but does that mean no-one should ever use a company that stores information electronically?
If everyone stopped spending money because they were afraid of a system getting hacked, very little would actually be bought and sold anywhere in the world.

True, true. But the point still remains.... Bullion By Post has serious built-in safety concerns.

masonic

aaj123 said:

masonic said:

aaj123 said:

Thrugelmir said:

India it seems will be the first country to legally ban ownership of cryptocurrency. More to follow? 

It will be the test case that will set an example for others of why such a ban is useless and counterproductive. All it will do is open up ability of the influential to launder and evade taxes while the govt there will be completely clueless one how to track these illegal flows without having any KYC information from local exchanges. This is why a thinking government will not ban Bitcoin. 

It's an environmental crime, which can't be allowed to continue unchecked. You could argue the war on drugs has been futile, yet governments around the world have persisted in that for decades.

This is the sort of tripe shouted by those who need to cope with missing out on gains they missed after having the opportunity. Never heard them shout about gold mining. 

Nobody here is shouting. This is the sort of sentiment that the world is waking up to. Everyone will suffer at the hands of those supporting bitcoin mining. Through higher energy prices, polluted air and rising sea levels. I bought some bitcoin quite a few years ago before the energy consumption became such an issue and currently have exposure to bitcoin indirectly in my S&S ISA. I don't think the hodlers need to face regulation and penalties, but the mining operations do. Get rid of some of those and the energy consumed per block will reduce proportionally. It will make no difference to the mechanics of the blockchain other than reducing the mining difficulty. Ultimately a less flawed equivalent will emerge and take over, but until then it is right that countries act to reduce the impact.

Gold mining is a good comparison as that is an example of a regulated industry (and it is regulated because once upon a time it was not, and that caused problems). We can argue about whether it is sufficiently regulated, but there is the precedent.

cricidmuslibale said:

masonic said:

aaj123 said:

Thrugelmir said:

India it seems will be the first country to legally ban ownership of cryptocurrency. More to follow? 

It will be the test case that will set an example for others of why such a ban is useless and counterproductive. All it will do is open up ability of the influential to launder and evade taxes while the govt there will be completely clueless one how to track these illegal flows without having any KYC information from local exchanges. This is why a thinking government will not ban Bitcoin. 

It's an environmental crime, which can't be allowed to continue unchecked. You could argue the war on drugs has been futile, yet governments around the world have persisted in that for decades.

I completely agree that any environmental crime needs to be severely discouraged; after all we only have one planet Earth and far too many human beings are currently damaging it significantly, even though in many cases this is probably not intentional. However I would strongly argue that the war on drugs has largely been not merely futile but seriously counterproductive; in my opinion, a lot of drug-related crime could be made far less profitable were governments to, at the very least, decriminalise all but the most dangerous drugs and allow these decriminalised drugs to be suitably taxed and sold in licensed premises!

Yes, agree, I was merely using this as an example that governments are willing and able to throw huge amounts of resources at a problem even if they have little hope of achieving their objective. Regulation would be the preferable option in both cases.