Seiss payments

Jayd7

Hi,
I am confused over the seiss payments.
do seiss count towards your turnover?
as without claiming seiss people’s turnover could & would be considerably less than usual. 

(Which is why seiss is there) 
however with claiming seiss it could push up your turnover from the previous year? . 

But without claiming seiss turnover is much less ? I’m confused. 

Could someone please explain 

Jayd7

Should of added, more confused on whether seiss payments count towards trading profits .
thank you 

Jeremy535897

SEISS payments are not turnover, and are not included in trading profits for the purposes of working out whether your trading profits have been "significantly reduced" due to coronavirus for SEISS grant eligibility.

falcieri

I am also still confused by this because when I do my tax return, my profit is the same as the last pre pandemic year but the pandemic pushed my expenses right up thus meaning my net profits weren't great. Yet on my self-assessment, it is adding the SEISS payments to my net profit so now it looks like I've made a profit out of the SEISS payments when if you took them out and treated it like a normal year, I didn't. 

Jeremy535897

What do you mean by "my profit is the same ... my net profits weren't great"?

Lots of people have seen their profits actually rise as a result of grants, even though turnover has fallen.

falcieri

Sorry, gross profits then net profits. What I mean is that having done this year's draft tax return, although my gross income was up, my expenses were also hugely up because of the pandemic, so it looks like net profit wise I made the same as the previous year (just  the way the calculations have worked out). But equally, is that what SEISS was based on? Wasn't the eligibility for SEISS based on 3 yrs trading profits and therefore, don't I use that as my ballpark for whether or not I believe I was affected. If I look at the average over 3 years I am way down on profit of any sort for the 20/21 tax year. I'm not even counting SEISS in this either. 

falcieri

I meant to add I am still down for 20/21 based on the 3 yr average even with the SEISS added on.

falcieri

I've just had a chat with HMRC on the webchat and they said it was fine and that I should apply for SEISS No 4 as well. I am not ENTIRELY sure they understood what I was asking but she just kept telling me I was eligible to claim and should keep going. She had no concern at all that I may have overclaimed and said my 20/21 self assessment didn't count towards my claim and that I was eligible.

ThisnotThat

falcieri said:

I've just had a chat with HMRC on the webchat and they said it was fine and that I should apply for SEISS No 4 as well. I am not ENTIRELY sure they understood what I was asking but she just kept telling me I was eligible to claim and should keep going. She had no concern at all that I may have overclaimed and said my 20/21 self assessment didn't count towards my claim and that I was eligible.

It's not the job of HMRC's "customer services" to assess whether you're actually eligible to claim so I'm not entirely sure why you'd start a webchat with them in the first place.

I'm not sure why you're making this so difficult.  Your SEISS payments are not taken into account when assessing whether you've had a significant reduction in trading profits, as SEISS grants are not trading profits.

Jeremy535897

ThisnotThat said:

falcieri said:

I've just had a chat with HMRC on the webchat and they said it was fine and that I should apply for SEISS No 4 as well. I am not ENTIRELY sure they understood what I was asking but she just kept telling me I was eligible to claim and should keep going. She had no concern at all that I may have overclaimed and said my 20/21 self assessment didn't count towards my claim and that I was eligible.

It's not the job of HMRC's "customer services" to assess whether you're actually eligible to claim so I'm not entirely sure why you'd start a webchat with them in the first place.

I'm not sure why you're making this so difficult.  Your SEISS payments are not taken into account when assessing whether you've had a significant reduction in trading profits, as SEISS grants are not trading profits.

They are part of trading profits, but aren't taken into account in establishing whether you have had a significant reduction in trading profits.

maxmycardagain

SEISS grants ARE taxable and included in S/A forms/returns as are ARG payments

they are counted as business income, added to your turnover, which - less costs - gives you a taxable figure